Hospice firms draining billions from Medicare

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by 108, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. G8trGr8t
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    G8trGr8t Premium Member

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    I am in agreement with you here but wonder if you would apply the same concept to public sector unions and their support in getting their politicians elected to create policies / approve contracts that allow them to inflate their salaries, benefits, and pensions beyond what the free market would pay?
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  2. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Public workers are underpaid you know that, plus the money they make helps stimulate the economy, much the way SNAP does.....:runs away:
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  3. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    What hospice lobbying groups are out there?
  4. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    The money that goes to hospice pays for employess that spend the money and help the economy.

    More hospice $$ stimulate the economy!

    Argument sound familiar Ms. Pelosi?
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  5. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    Are you suggesting the industry doesn't lobby?
  6. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    Just wanting someone to answer the question ... increasingly hard on this board these days.
  7. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    I would leave this to smarter political minds than my own, but maybe the private ones at least might be in with the "insurance" lobby?

    And I'm not saying all Hospice programs are doing this - especially the ones that are free-standing Hospice facilities are usually doing things right. My grandmother is in a standard, normal nursing home. They designated her Hospice, but there are no extra nurses, there is no terminal illness designation, there isn't even a notation about life expectancy. That's the kind that's the abusive/"needs to be curtailed" type.
  8. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a link to that? Because all I've found from the .gov site that had a link to this were numbers that were way lower than that. http://www.cms.gov/apps/files/ACA-savings-report-2012.pdf

    And taking the Medicare spending is great....except that the funding for the so-called rebates/exemptions has to come from somewhere. If it costs $1000 to do something, and you only have to pay $100 because of your income level, where does that other $900 come from?
  9. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    I did find this -- http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-08-15-hospices-medicare-lobbying_n.htm

    (Hospice lobbyists battle over Medicare payment system)

    And this http://www.hospicepatients.org/hospic49.html
    "There are many organizations on both State and National levels which promote hospice. These organizations are not consumer-advocacy groups, but lobbying groups which protect the interests of corporate hospices. Even though they often state that they are interested in promoting quality hospice care, they are not going to publicly admit the severity of fraud in the hospice industry. They act more like PR/Public Relations organizations which publicize the benefits of hospice, and also act as industry lobbying forces to protect the industry and promote legislation or laws of interest to hospices."

    HTH
  10. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    So. according to Ice's first link, the two largest for-profit hospices spent about $1.2M in lobbying fees over the course of a year recently. That's pocket change compared to Big Pharma, the AHA, AMA and Blue Cross. Each of their four lobbyists spent more than $16M in 2012 according to the link - meaning they rank in the top 11 in the country in 2012.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?showYear=2012&indexType=s

    And this is exactly why we don't have real healthcare reform. CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!
  11. DaveFla
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    DaveFla VIP Member

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    Well, one SURE way to eliminate the fraud and waste in the Hospice practice is to let the government run it... Right?
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  12. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    i agree that Hospice is a great service, but that isn't the point of the thread. The point is that there are outfits that are clearly bending the rules to grab as much money as they can from tax payers.

    eligibility requirements seem to need to be tightened due to the above
  13. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    agree

    nothing will truly change until we have substantial campaign finance and lobbying reform
  14. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    they do shell out the money, and its the private sector taking advantage of it

    of course, the rules were probably written loosely due to some nice campaign donations
  15. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    The premise of the bolded his not been proven AT ALL, reimbursement has been cut, how that will affect care is still not know and many smart people believe it will affect "actual care".... Just because a Gov program is cut doesn't mean that there is lots of money sitting there. If that was the case lets just cut the budget in 1/2 and start paying off the debt.


    As many opine here there is plenty of waste, fraud and abuse....all classic in Gov programs.
  16. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Or written by a bunch of empty suits in DC.....see, well just about every bill ever passed in DC!

    Just to be clear I'm not saying lobbyists didn't have some input, but to blame it all there is well a tad naïve and short sighted.
  17. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    Lobbyists write a lot of bills.

    True story.
  18. OklahomaGator
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    I was on the governing board of my lack hospital for many years. What I saw was when new Medicare programs came out (home health and hospice) they were typically cost based for the first 3-5 years and then their reimbursement was changed to a set price reimburesment. Hospitals would allocate all legally allowed costs into the program for the first 5 years, which resulted in lowering the costs to the rest of the hospital. I constantly argued against it because once the reimbursement structure changed the hospital would start showing a loss for that service.
  19. chemgator
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    chemgator Well-Known Member

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    The companies are not at fault here, according to your description. Once two doctors certify that the patient is terminal, then Hospice has to take them, right? This is the problem with democrats. They do not understand human nature, and they do not understand accountability. The accountability belongs with the doctors. If the doctors cannot make reasonably accurate predictions, like 75% or better, then take away their certification to make these predictions. You have to allow for miracle cures, and people who refuse to die, but a 30% accuracy is way too low.
  20. sappanama
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    sappanama VIP Member

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    might y
    might your beef, and 08's, be with the corrupt gubmint that hasn't the stones to correct a unintended consequence of probably a decent law? this is due to their greed and overwhelming desire for re-election. the corruption is rampant in the legislative branch, and perhaps marginally less rampant in the judicial branch, the executive branch is probably directly the least corrupt but the machine involved in electing POTUS is the absolute most pervertedly corrupt "body" in the USA.
    Hospice care in the great majority of cases is a safety net scam for sick people's families, not for terminally ill patients unfortunately. Hospice care is often sought for patients with stable chronically progressive conditions, COPD, DM, CHF, some types of cancers, CAD etc.. where there is little to no expectation that they will pass in the next 30-60 or so days, but may need more care than the family wants to provide or can provide. the hospice companies are leeches not unlike home builders relying on corrupt federal lending practices, many senior care wellness scams, some doctors that diagnose well paid illnesses much more frequently to increase reimbursement.
    the only way to solve this is by getting a responsible gubmint- term limits is the only way I can see to induce better behavior from our corrupt elected officials

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