Hospice firms draining billions from Medicare

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by 108, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Yup, and then there will be no hospice care.
  2. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    My understanding of Hospice having a few family member under their care, is they were strictly for terminal illness.
  3. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    Are you advocating for an entire industry to survive off of large government subsidies with little oversight?
  4. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    must not have read the part that there are non-profits who do it, and within a time frame that isn't exorbitant

    im also sure they wouldn't have gotten into the industry if they couldn't make a profit, without bending the rules

    should the tax payers let this slide, just so this industry can be more profitable?

    not sure why you feel the need to deflect this practice
  5. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    I think you guys are overlooking the larger point here, i.e., that these hospice care providers have obviously found the cure for cancer - as evidenced by those receiving its treatments, services, and care and surviving them - which we need to get them to reveal so that everybody stricken with a potentially terminal disease can receive this miraculous treatment, services, and care, and not just the terminally ill.

    Unless, of course, that miraculously high percentage of folks actually surviving the hospice treatments, services, and care, are doing so in spite of it.

    I mean, isn't that really what's going on ? o_O
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  6. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Non-profit vs for Profit...they are pretty much the same thing when it comes to a business. The difference is the non-profit must "reinvest" money in order to not show a "profit". I worked for 2 hospitals over a 15 year period, they both were very concerned with their billing and payments. Funny thing was the "tax supported/ non-profit" hospital is the one facing Federal Medicare Fraud and overbilling charges to the tune of $600 Million.

    Tax payers should not let it slide and I never suggested such a thing. As I said more details are needed before an informed opinion can be made vilifying all for profit companies.
  7. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Not at all.

    I am trying to point out this happens with Gov funded anything very often. And I think it sucks to bet clear. its not the first time or the last.
  8. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    what kind of details do you need to connect the dots as to why the non-profits have a turnaround of 69 days versus for-profit's 102 days?
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  9. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Here's my 2 cents from working in the medical field and also my grandmother being placed in Hospice care.

    When I was in school for Surg Tech/Nursing, Hospice was for those who had 6 months left or so, had been certified by doctors, and were receiving end-of-life care - specific nursing help, Morphine and other heavy meds, emotional support for the patient/family, etc.

    Fast forward to now, where my grandmother was put in "Hospice" care. When I visited her, she was at her old nursing home still, nothing different, except for the DNR status. She wasn't on any specific regimen, she didn't *really* have six months (well who knows how long she has because she's ill and she's 93), there was no terminal illness designation, etc. However, they were certainly billing Medicaid/Medicare for it. I asked them about it and the administrators told me they slapped the "Hospice" designation on most of their older patients regardless of whether they were terminal or not. I was aghast and my face spoke as much because she got really embarrassed and walked away.

    It's not just the Hospice "Firms" doing it. They're all looking for increased money. And you know they bill for things not provided - i.e., laundry, certain meals, cleaning, etc. My mom is constantly cleaning her room/bathroom, constantly doing her laundry because they "never get to it", bringing her food, bathing her herself (having to lift her in the bathroom) every other day - all services they bill for.

    We will probably track all this then file a report after my grandmother passes. We have a genuine concern that if we report anything they might take it out on her.

    Frankly, ALL of the Medicare/Medicaid billing needs to undergo an overhaul, and therein lies the problem with the ACA. It does absolutely NOTHING to address the abuses and fraud going on which attribute to the spiraling expenses - fraud that is not just related to illegals, by the way, but to so many aspects.
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  10. boligator
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    boligator Member

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    Well said icequeen...I had a similar experience with my Mom who passed away 2 months ago. She had been under "hospice" care for well over a year, yet when placed in "hospice" she was not "terminal" according to her doctor. Just elderly with a lot of health problems; i.e., old age.
  11. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    i agree wholeheartedly that all Gov programs should be picked with a fine tooth to decrease the over-billings and fraud

    as for the ACA, one thing it did do, was take away $700 billion in Medicare spending over a number of years without cutting into actual care. Which means, if they can do that, there's a lot of money sitting out there that can be cut into
  12. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the not-for profit patients were sicker and died faster?
    Perhaps the For-profits patients got better care and improved or lived longer?

    Just pointing out there maybe other reasons, but it is easy to make assumptions. I'm sure there is abuse/fraud and that sucks. I'm not defending any group, I'm smart enough to know when I don't know enough to do so.

    Pretty sad that people dying faster seems to be the goal in some corners. That comes from somebody who has told his wife to "pull the plug" if needed ASAP.
  13. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    Hospice is great when run by ethical people. I've worked in both a hospice and in a 3 hospitals. Hospice blows your typical hospital out of the water in terms of efficiency when you have ethical people running its day to day operations. The one I worked for was for-profit. Patients were reviewed every other week at staff meetings as required by Medicare to determine whether they should still be on Hospice. The process worked quite well IMO, but given the small size of many a hospice, can easily be abused given the incompetence of Medicare oversight. Medicare has WAY too many rules and tends to swat a gnat while swallowing a camel.
  14. g8orbill
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    I have donated quite a bit of money to our local Hospice and have known many people who have gone there and NONE who have come back
  15. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused by this post bill. Hospice is an end of life service for terminal illness.
  16. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    read gatorpa's post
  17. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    Just saying, those that don't go back to Hospice are generally dead.
  18. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    that was my point
  19. ursidman
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    ursidman Well-Known Member

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    So, that means the typical patient in both the non-profit and the for-profit die within the 6 month expectation? My mom went into a for-profit Hospice on a Friday night and passed the following Tuesday. Even in that constrained time period there was a good bit of turn over in the nearby rooms. I never observed any of the patients anywhere other than in bed in their rooms - they all appeared to be terminal. That Hospice also had an in-home Hospice service but I don't know what-all that involved. One would think a patient receiving Hospice care -which is palliative only would be a less expensive patient than one upon whom the medical industry is unleashed without restraint. Hospice performs a great service however, it is only human nature to find a lucrative loophole and game the system. Maybe those loopholes could be addressed so that the Hospice philosophy and existence is not threatened.

    I noted the nurses came to my mom's room a couple of times an hour and made notes on her chart despite the fact that my mom was unresponsive and receiving no medical treatment at all. The chart was simply a list of times they had looked in on her. When asked, the nurse said it was a Medicare requirement - I'm guessing so they were paid appropriately.
  20. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    OK, it just came across differently to me.

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