Hospice firms draining billions from Medicare

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by 108, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    Those for-profit firms wouldn't do this would they?!?

    I'm going to bet this isn't a worthy area of overspending for our bribed Congress to tighten the rules o_O


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...3-ae56-22de072140a2_story.html?wpisrc=al_excl
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  2. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Sometimes people just sort of refuse to do what Alan Grayson, speaking on behalf of all theories of socialized medicine and nakedly projecting it upon Republicans, would say the old and infirm should do and "die quickly". Seems like "failure to die" is the only indicia anyone in that story is using to measure if someone was or wasn't really dying (or, more to the point, reasonably expected to die in the near future) when they went into hospice.

    What, by the way, is the "correct" or acceptable rate for hospice patient recovery/improvement and discharge? Are as many as 20% allowed to endure? Only as many as 10%? Is even one patient too many?
  3. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    Here it is, folks. Death panels...


    I told you so!
  4. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    im guessing the only reason you felt the need to defend this tactic of recruiting younger and healthier patients to Hospice (really?!?!?), is because it's comes from the hands of the private sector, whom can't do no wrong in the honest effort to make a buck

    but i have no illusions that Congress has a hand in this
  5. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    that's what you have to add?

    maybe simply tightening the rules to not allow these companies to bleed us taxpayers dry by allowing them to recruit younger and healthier patients for the sole sake of making $$$
  6. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    IF our government is going to pay $17B/year for end of life care then perhaps we need to be sure we're only paying for patients that are actually at the end of their lives. Not by killing them Dave, but by setting assurances that only terminally ill patients are put into hospice. I'm not sure how a 70% survival rate of hospice patients on taxpayer dollars isn't disturbing. I'm curious to see more numbers.

    While I'm certainly no expert, I'd think something like 10%-15% survival rate might mean that we're setting the bar appropriately. 70% would seem to indicate the bar is significantly too low.

    As with everything in human behavior, incentivizing is key:

    This doesn't seem like proper incentive to achieve efficient, reasonable behavior from Hospice providers.
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  7. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    Or, in the very same sense, we could simply put to death all convicted felons (capital crimes) without affording them the opportunity of automatic appeal? That's what you are calling for in this instance.
  8. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    And just how do you propose those decisions should be made? Or worse, by whom?

    We said, from the beginning of the Obamacare debate, that so,e bureaucrat would be making life and death decisions based solely on an economic basis. "we" were right, and this only proves it.
  9. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    The decision to put someone into hospice is not a decision to kill or not to kill.

    These are not life or death decisions.
  10. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Same thing happen with Physical Therapy 20 yrs ago, then the Gov got wise, cut back reimbursement and the demand for PT's dropped.
  11. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    Exactly. This is a free-government-money induced problem.

    The OP tried to blame it on for-profit care centers, and many partisans took the bait, following the TH flow chart to a tee.
  12. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    Do you think those who seek this "free-government-money" bear any responsibility?
  13. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    so the private sector is just doing what they are expected to do, which is bend the rules as much as you can to make profit?

    and the fact that they lobby (legal bribery) to keep the current incentives in place for them to admit patients that have no business being in hospice yet, for the sole sake of making money, is all good because, that's what is an acceptable expectation of them to do?

    this is just another instance of where profit is at odds with the intended care

  14. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    I'm not trying to free these care centers from guilt. Ideally, they'd work with purely altruistic motives, but humans don't always make decisions based on altruism. It would be better if they wrote a letter to their congressman to inform the government of this unnecessary loophole from which they're profiting needlessly. Just as it would be better for the government to not dole out money needlessly.

    My point is that the easy solution is not to attempt to change human nature but to work with it.
  15. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    It really sucks when you have a business and have to make a profit to stay open.
  16. HallGator
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    Nothing wrong with profit if it is arrived at in an above-board manner. Not so sure you could say this would fall under that criteria.
  17. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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  18. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    As always the devil is in the details. Not enough info here to begin to decide if what is going on is a systematic fraud issue.

    Just a side point, it is not uncommon for a patient who has decided they want to go on hospice then have family rush them to the ER and "revoke" the hospice and request everything be done to save the family member.

    It is also not an exact science predicting how long someone has to live. I'm sure we all have examples of people who "beat the odds" and others who passed quickly. Point is more companies are getting into "hospice" care, I assume because the Medicare reimbursement is good. That will change soon IMHO. If Medicare does not pay well for something it doesn't get done or people pay out of pocket.
  19. 108
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    108 Premium Member

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    Ok, in agreement
  20. 108
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    Nobody suggested profit in and of itself is wrong, but I'm sure you know that

    I doubt they will be going broke with stiffer rules, and if they do, then it's a bad business to be in

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