Holder's DOJ sues Louisiana to stop school vouchers

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by wygator, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. wygator
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    wygator Well-Known Member

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    Louisiana creates a voucher program to permit low-income students to escape poorly performing schools. DOJ is trying to block the program.

    Conclusion: choice in abortion good...choice in schools bad

    http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2013/08/us_government_files_to_block_s.html
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  2. HallGator
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    Yeah let's worry more about racial balance than about a good education for poor children. That should make everyone feel good.
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  3. OklahomaGator
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    OklahomaGator VIP Member

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    bottom line: protect union jobs
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  4. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Having similar problems here, too. The parents that pitched in and paid/worked to get their kids into a Charter school set up in a lower-income part of downtown are now also being told that their school will NOT be open next week because of low test scores. Those parents want to be able to take their kids to other area schools and not put them in local "neighborhood" schools that performed worse than the charter now closing. They're actually asking the district/state to bus their kids OUT to other schools. Meantime, Buffalo is still looking for suburban schools to take kids from 2 other schools that are being closed because their scores are that bad. All while community "leaders" are telling parents to keep their kids in the downtown schools and that things will improve eventually.

    "In Buffalo, just 11.5 percent of students met or exceeded the English proficiency standard, and only 9.6 percent met or exceeded the math standard....Looking at it another way, more than 93 percent of eighth grade Buffalo students scored below grade level in math. In English, 87 percent tested below grade level."

    Any wonder the parents want their kids out of the Buffalo School District?

    On a side note, this is why we rent in a higher-end district. We could afford to buy a gorgeous house downtown. Large, brick, "affluent" neighborhood - but we'd have to take our kids to a private school elsewhere and he'd have to drive 30 minutes to work. I'd rather rent and give my kids a better chance in school. As much as I complain about her school, it's one of the top ranked ones in the area.
  5. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Back to the topic, DOJ is looking more and more ridiculous going after stuff like this. The point of the vouchers is to improve opportunities for minority/at risk kids, correct? What did they think they were going to do? Of COURSE they're going to try to get their kids into better, safer schools. Any parent would!
  6. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Well, I think the LA vouchers allow you to go to pretty crappy religious schools or not-so-good private schools with questionable curiculum and results, so it would be hard to argue that that the intent of the vouchers was only about a "good education" either, rather than a simple desire to maximize choice and hope that it all works out, because the free-market or something.
  7. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    One result of vouchers is likely to be increased racial segregation and even less mixing by immigrants.
  8. LittleBlueLW
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    LittleBlueLW Well-Known Member

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    Is that inherently bad?

    Forced mixing has had lovely results thus far, no?
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  9. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Inherently? I don't know. But its also hard to argue that forced racial segregation had unquestionably good results in the past either.
  10. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    Forced segregation due to racial prejudices was wrong. I think everyone agree (well most everyone). But when given the choice it seems most people tend to segregate themselves out anyways.

    That is why there are neighborhoods that are predominately Asian or Italian or black or whatever almost anywhere you go. Besides, I doubt that a school, any school would be allowed to refuse a student based only on race.
  11. PSGator66
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    Seems like a different state is being sued all the time. Is this new? I don't remember states being sued by the federal government like this. It is a different country now with King Obama running the show.
  12. HallGator
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    Not sure what your argument is. Are you saying the La. schools are not good choices because just comparing them to Cali schools doesn't really show anything.
  13. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    You may force kids to go to school together but that does not force them to get along. Integration was needed in large part because Black kids were getting hand-me-down books and supplies or none at all whereas the White kids were getting the first-line things. Worry about the quality of education first and racial balance second.
  14. MichiGator2002
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    Personally, I think getting the best educational result for any who can avail themselves of it is of greater priority and greater value than avoiding entirely coincidental self-segregation.
  15. gatornana
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    Evidently there is a federal court order in place and this voucher program violates that......the DOJ would have to step up to enforce that order.
  16. brainstorm
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    brainstorm Moderator VIP Member

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    What about unforced segregation or integration? In other words, stop govt-forcing racial stuff. What's the point?
  17. gatordowneast
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    Department of Justice. Hmmm....Justice for who?
  18. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what they are arguing.

    The Department of Education Office of Civil Rights and the DOJ Civil Rights Division have dual responsibility for ensuring compliance with court ordered desegregation plans under Title VI. While new desegregation orders aren't really being put into place, they have responsibility for ensuring that those districts that are already subject to them are in compliance.

    In practical terms, this can be a hassle since opening new schools in areas where they would be zoned to have a student body that is disproportionately one race, or opening a charter school that is likely to bring the proportions out of plan compliance, etc., do present issues. But DOE's OCR is supposed to be brought in on the front end to look at ways to modify either the desegregation order or the planned change to keep it within the spirit of the court ordered plan. When you make a change that brings the district out of compliance with the plan without addressing that with DOE first, you pretty clearly risk a DOJ suit to enforce the desegregation plan.

    What does that mean? In the end Louisiana probably can do this, but they're going to have to work out the details with DOE on how not to negatively impact desegregation efforts when they do so. And that will probably be harder when you're in the context of forcing DOJ to sue you to get you to the table than it would have been if this had been addressed with DOE before the effective date.
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    brainstorm Moderator VIP Member

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    Happiness is in the eye of the Holder.
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    Obama, the selective enforcer.

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