Holder Threatens States Over Voting law

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by diehardgator1, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how the VRA itself would have allowed that. It may have presented an impediment to laws that are purportedly intended to cure that problem, but I think the counter argument is that the reason it did so is because those laws (arguably intentionally) had the effect of disproportionately abridging the right to vote of citizens of certain racial groups.

    That said, my post was intended as a joke. I would be careful about making "hooray now we can do what we want" praise about striking down a law that at least facially solely addresses practices with a discriminatory intent or effect on racial groups' ability to vote though. It sets that gotcha joke up pretty easily.
  2. diehardgator1
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    diehardgator1 Well-Known Member

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    All states and all people should be under the same rules and regulations We cannot have different laws for different people and races. One state or class of people should not be subjected to a law that is not applied to others.

    People of today cannot be held libel for things that happened 40 years ago.
  3. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    So, the SCOTUS slaps the Dems down with this latest ruling and Holder thinks he's going to win a case in the SC against their own ruling? That sounds kinda dumb...
  4. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't be against this ruling. Section 2 of the VRA is without question still in place and DOJ can sue to enforce it. Holder is essentially threatening that they will do so if jurisdictions start passing things that would have failed precertification were it still in place. Basically what you can and can't do is still the same, just how procedurally DOJ is able to enforce it has changed.

    That said, a challenge to Section 2 (at least the portion dealing with "effect" rather than "intent") may well make it to the Court at some point before too long.
  5. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    It will indeed. But it's up to congress to fix any inconsistencies, and I doubt the Pubs will entertain anything that would end-up giving the Dems the advantage again.
  6. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    That's the tough thing to say. I tend to agree with you that counting on this Congress to pass anything would be a fool's errand, but Section 4 of the VRA was reapproved by an overwhelming majority the last time it was up for renewal. So who knows. But even without Section 4 in place DOJ Civil Rights can challenge laws and procedures, just the procedure for doing so (at least in former precertification states) will change.

    A Section 2 challenge may wait until the conservatives can get some better rulings on disparate impact in other discrimination contexts. The Mt. Holly case next term will offer that opportunity in another context, but even assuming disparate impact gets kicked in other context(s) in that case, I'm not sure how much appetite the Court will have for going after the core of the VRA in the immediate future. But it will probably get there at some point.
  7. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    That's funny because someone (a DEM, I suppose) brought that exact fact up to Hannity just a few minutes ago.

    There are too many snaking districts that need to be fixed.
  8. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Good, and so much for conservative justices not legislating from the bench. The court overruled a law just reenacted by Congress in 2006 (about 330-30 in the House and 98-0 in the senate, and signed by Pres Bush), and one which was effectively used within the year to restrict racially targeted voter suppression efforts in exactly the same states which they now say are too hip to be so encumbered, No, they're not.
  9. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the Dems have an advantage in redistricting... judging from this new ruling.
  10. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    You mean they may require voters to actually produce some sort of ID or proof of residency like a utility bill? How horrible? Don't we do that in Florida?
  11. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    I have no problem with Voter ID.

    I DO have a problem with changing the laws 6 months out from an election where the goal is to create maximum chaos and confusion on Election Day.

    If you want to make changes for 2016, do them now and widely publicize them. Otherwise, it's just Jim Crow shenanigans.
  12. Row6
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    And proactively get the ID's out to those for whom having on is not automatic and will be a large pain in the ass - old and poor!. Do you know how hard it is to get a drivers license in Florida now? I can imagine the incensed screams of most on TH if they had to haul ass down to their local office and sit around a few hours with birth certificates, etc in hand just to vote.
  13. Gatoragman
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    Voting is one of the greatest honors we as Americans have. If you value that honor you will do what it takes to get registered. If it is hard, it is hard equally for everyone. If it is imposible for some, maybe they don't have the right to vote. Asking to prove your citizenship in order to register to vote then suppling a ID one election day is by no means discriminatory unless you shouldn't be voting in the first place.
    I can never understand why people make this a race issue or a R or D issue. It si very simple to me, if you have the right to vote, citizen, prove it and move on.
  14. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Simple for you because you - like most white college educated citizens - probably have a driver's licenses, credit cards, and every other ID known to man in their wallet, and you didn't have to go and specifically get one - requiring a birth certificate - to vote. If you did, you may or may not willingly go do so, but the fact remains that less of your peers would and your demographic would be negatively impacted at the polls. This is the hoped for result by those pushing a solution whose only proven problem is their party losing elections.
  15. OB1
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    OB1 Active Member

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    That's funny!

    It's exactly what I have to do to get a license(birth certificate, SS card, and bill sent to my residence) not to mention the additional cost of the background check for CDL Haz Mat endorsement which had to be done everytime I renew (every 5 years). I also needed most of this for passport. You have to have these pieces of identification to complete an I9 to get a job, or cash a check, or open a bank account, etc., etc. One must be a specialist to exist without ID.

    Why is it voters shouldn't be required to prove their identity to vote? You can't do many of the things we have a right to do without a legal form of identification, please try and explain why voting is so special in this regard. Even illegal aliens can get an ID, it's not that difficult, seriously.

    Does one really even have to wonder why the welfare and assistance programs are full of fraud?

    Poor folks can't get ID! It's to much of a burden on them, just give them what they deserve/need.

    Sent by ANDROID peanut butter fudge using Gator Country
  16. Gatoragman
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    Gatoragman VIP Member

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    If you are not willing to go and get it, let's just allow everyone to vote?
    If you are not willing to put in enough effort to get one, YOU DON'T NEED TO VOTE, and I don't care who falls into that category, white, black, brown, yellow pink, green, it doesn't matter if you are not willing
  17. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Some are unable, some put it off to the end, and others - probably like you and like me - already have this ID and so calling on others to get is no sweat off your back. The point is not so much that you might not go through the hassles, but that others in a similar demographic - who tend to vote in similar ways - will be discouraged and turn out will be affectively suppressed, which is after all - given that there is no proven problem requiring more voter ID's - the point. To deny that is to either miss the point or to cynically promote it.
  18. Gatoragman
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    Gatoragman VIP Member

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    If you have the right to vote, I by all means want you to vote. I do not want people who do not have the right to vote, voting.
    And don't give me this crap of some are unable, if they are unable to get registered, they are unable to vote, if you put it off till the end then voting obviously wasn't very important to you. Do you think anyone should have any self responcibility?
    There are plenty of ways to get registered and plenty of help no matter who you are.
  19. Row6
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    Hard for you to imagine, but there are in fact people who are older and/or do not own cars for whom going to get a license - including all the new paperwork now required - is a very big deal. My mother couldn't drive in her later years but fortunately had me to do this kind of stuff for her. As I said, easy for you and me to say, but the entire purpose of the laws are to suppress a certain demographic for whom getting a new drivers license is difficult from showing up at the polls . There is no supporting evidence for the idea that voter fraud of the type that would be curbed by ID laws is a problem of any proportions at all.
  20. diehardgator1
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    diehardgator1 Well-Known Member

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    If they are unable to go get an ID how are they able to go vote? If they put it off till the end that is their fault no body else s. So they dont think it is important enough to get an ID then they dont think voting is that important

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