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Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by 108, Jan 23, 2014.
"If he had his head on straight"?????????? What is that about?
I don't see much merit in such blanket accusations. Though your observation about posts in this thread (and admittedly, I contributed) may be true, it's best, imo, to cite specific observations for critique.
This really caught my attention. Are you talking about Hill or Walker? I know Walker's background is tragic, but for some reason I thought Hill was coming from a relatively stable family. More info on this please.
I posted an article sometime last summer (I tried to dig it up, but couldn't find it) about Hill having lost his parents and living with a teammate's parents, or maybe coach. I can't exactly recall. But it is a real tragic situation.
If you ever want a sobering look at where some of our kids come from, go look at the "personal" section under their Gatorzone bios. Some of the kids have that section and the details include their parents, siblings, etc. Others don't have that section. There is a reason.
Found it: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...0125_1_montverde-teammates-kyrie-irving-guard
Thanks. I will check that out. I was just wondering after my last post where I could get decent player bios that go beyond H.S. stats and achievements.
Every person is different, so you can't use broad generalizations to determine and individuals behavior, but I actually think being an orphan would make a person less likely to jump to the NBA. Unique among any occupation in the US, and frankly illegal, major college athletes have very valuable skills and are not allowed to receive a monetary salary for this. However, for the individual player there are many non-economic benefits that come with being a major college basketball player (women, likely free drinks, likely some small gifts, housing, coaching, free meals, etc), but the one thing this has in common is that it really only benefits the player. If you are from a poor family, it would be very hard to turn the perks of being a BMOC into helping out your family, because you need serious cash to do that, and the one thing that the NCAA really frowns upon is giving players serious cash (even though these players make the NCAA millions). To do that, you need to play professionally. I know nothing of Hill's personality, and it may be that he wants to drive fancy cars, wear expensive suits and things which cost money, so he would truly be happier in the NBA (there is nothing wrong with that). But it is also possible that he enjoys college life and doesn't feel the same pressure to help out his parents that other players do.
Hill has actually played well for a freshman in Billy's system, but I think most would agree that he is probably going to see a big jump in year two, and an extra year is very likely to help out his draft stock.
Maybe, Sixoburn. Not living with parents is different from not having family or others who might depend on you. I guarantee you there is as much pressure on Hill to provide for those who have provided for him--even if it is a self-inflicted pressure--than there are for others with more traditional family situations. Being 20 years old (good year to two ahead of his other freshman peers) would also factor in heavily.
I think sometimes we evaluate whether or not a kid is ready for the league and should leave early from the wrong perspective altogether. We think in terms of where he will be drafted and how ready he will be to contribute, but that is far more true for football than hoops. In reality, a guy like Hill may have less upside than we think because of his age, size, game, etc., and he may be better of leaving now, maybe getting drafted in the second round or late in the first, developing his game and body the best he can on a NBA bench, and if he fails moving on to Europe. The best part of Hill's game is his speed and that won't necessarily improve over the next year or so, but it sure will erode earlier and he may need to maximize his professional earning/playing potential by leaving now should he improve enough to merit certain selection on draft night. If he gets in the right situation and develops on the bench, he could contribute in a year or two and hopefully get a nice second contract somewhere. If he doesn't make it to that second deal, the kid would be an absolute sensation overseas because of his athleticism, quick first step, open court speed, vision, passing ability.
With respect to others counting on him, I am sure that any family anywhere would like someone to make millions in the NBA, but a person who was brought up his entire life by a single mother, watching her struggle to pay the bills every month for 18 years, is probably going to feel a stronger need to help them out compared to someone who has lived with a different family. But this is all speculation.
A person who has great physical talent is always taking a gamble by staying, but I do wonder how much the NBA is willing to gamble on a PG without great height or shooting skills. How many of the HS kids drafted were PGs? I can think of Telfair, but that is about it. His game reminds me of Rondo, and I really think if I were an NBA GM I would need to see more before I drafted him. In my opinion (and I don't claim to be an expert), PG is the hardest position for elite athleticism to hide other shortcomings. At SF/PF/C a guy who has good size and can jump through the roof can make it as a defender/rebounder, assuming they have some semblance of an offensive game. A 6'1" PG who is not a great shooter or ball handler is going to have a very hard time making a roster. If his game doesn't develop as expected his draft stock might fall some, but it seems PG is the position NBA teams are least willing to "project". If he drops out of the first round there is a decent chance he is developing his game in the D-league or Europe versus for the gators.
Chris Walker this year, or Pat Young after his first year, are/were more gambling that they would develop and not hurt their draft stock by staying.
I don't disagree at all, but I think it is a false dichotomy to contrast NBA versus Europe, for instance. They are both pro leagues, they will both make him a ton of money.
The real contrast is between pro career and delaying/shortening a pro career, which is the decision every prospect has to make when pondering whether to leave early. At 20 years of age and with his athleticism/health clocking ticking ahead of other prospects in the same class, Hill's timeline is a literal different than others. There is no guarantee that he will go significantly high enough a year later to merit returning because NBA personal guys are undoubtedly aware of his age and upside and will hold that against him whenever he comes out--it will only become more significant the more he delays. Is it worth returning simply to slide into the late first round or maybe higher in the first? Hill may not get guaranteed money, but he sure as heck would get competitive money internationally.
Now, I am not saying he should leave, but I completely understand the rationale behind him considering it. There is more than immediate on court success in the eyes of scouts.
I have no issues with anyone posting an opinion. However, I can't stand psychobabble and any resulting conclusions or speculations derived from it.
Could I also point out Hill has less turnovers per minute than wilbekin...so this idea he is completely careless is very unfounded..just tossing that out.
Physically, when he's dribbling up the court, he makes me think of Isiah Thomas. A long way to go to complete his game though.