Here is Jeff's problem without a doubt

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by 95Gator, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    Yep many times he had all day in the pocket and couldn't find anyone or even a good place to go with the ball. I find it very hard to believe that no one was open enough. One time he had a perfect pocket and checked down right away for a 2 yard pass, without even letting the play develop. Other times he would throw to covered receivers, why would you do that if you are under no pressure?

    It's amazing to me how well we pass protected at times yet we wind up with one real touchdown drive basically in garbage time. We have to take advantage of our opportunities better.
  2. UFLAW81
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    UFLAW81 Gators Fan Advocate VIP Member

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    I think so too.
  3. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    I know he missed Patton one time who was wide open for TD.

    Driskel checked down without seeing him... :roll:
  4. SmootyGator
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    SmootyGator Well-Known Member

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    We get pressure on the quarterback like that a lot, and I don't see as many fumbles by opposing quarterbacks. I see them scrambling away. We still might get the sack, but they see us coming. Jeff seems to never sense that. If he did sense it, he definitely has the tools to escape and have a chance at making a play, or at least not taking a loss/fumbling the ball.

    OL's aren't perfect. Any mediocre QB will have an awesome day if they have all day to throw.
  5. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    Never senses it. Doesn't find open receivers. Terrible touch on many passes. Just overall lack of awareness.
  6. OB1
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    OB1 Active Member

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    Watch the replay! When we get to the quarterback that fast we get a sack and/or a fumble.

    I agree Jeff needs to work on the quickness of his reads, but on that play he didn't have a chance to move or pass the ball!

    It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
  7. SmootyGator
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    SmootyGator Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say "never", it just seems that more often than not.
  8. Speedgator84
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    Speedgator84 Member

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    I have coached and worked with elite athletes for 28 years and have hesitated to comment on this due to my experiences as an athlete and coach. A lot of the responses here are astute, and I will attempt to harness them into just my observation. Relevant observations are as follows:
    1. "He does seem to be slow with his reads..."
    2. "He needs to didn't know when to throw it away..."
    3. "He needs to find the balance between staying in the pocket and taking off..."
    ...among others along the same ideology

    Beginning with the premise of the thread, I do not totally agree with the observation that he hasn't had enough reps as a pocket passer to be effective. I say that because there are QB's with less experience (True and redshirt freshman) who come into NCAA Division 1 and have moderate success passing from the pocket. I would say a more accurate statement would be more reps wth the CORRECT sequence in TIME. In other words, I believe this is as much of a pedagogical issue as it is a neuromuscular one.

    Slow reads, not throwing it away, pocket awareness, game being too fast, nice plays in between the twenties, and poor red zone play all have a foundation in first knowing (mentally) a proper sequence in TIME, AND THEN repeating that sequence WITH SUCCESS!

    Proper sequence? A. Pass progressions, B. take run yardage given (If gifted or have the green light) C. throw ball away
    The pass progressions (decision to throw, run, or throw ball away) basically have to be completed in less than 3 seconds. This SEQUENCE (with the emphasis on pass completion) needs to be repeated, yes, but in the proper order and amount of TIME! TIME is the important variable. I just watched the game over and every pass that he threw within three seconds was completed at a high percentage (90%). Ironically, the only incomplete was the interception in the 4th quarter after the timeout, which tells me that it was just as much the receivers fault as they were in their route too long in a red zone situation. Which brings me to this point...the red zone issues stem from a smaller field where coverage is tighter, so the window for error is that much smaller. Spacing the offense if passing (in the red zone) would lend to a huge advantage.

    So, drill on TIME with the proper sequence, and spreading the field in the redzone (it works, just watch teams who are efficient in the red zone) would certainly help. Thoughts?
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  9. Jonas
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    Jonas Well-Known Member

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    1) Easier said than done
    2) The RZ is the hardest place to pass, so maybe his deficiencies are harder to hide in that region.
  10. 95Gator
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    95Gator Well-Known Member

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    Awesome post. do it more often. I'm certainty not a coach. Former player in HS is all. Either way, I was just working off of what I thought before he ever played a down. I thought and maybe I'm wrong that the feel for the pocket becomes second nature much like a throwing style. Once it's ingrained it becomes hard to change and since all he did was run out of the pocket in high school than he was starting with virtually no equivalent of a throwing motion so he's literally learning how to throw on the job. But meaning pocket presence. I don't blame him, I do blame the coaches though. The team Gabe them enough to win if they called it differently and it's easier to blame grown men. JD is an amazing talent and the team won the game. A couple plays removed and this game is a blow out.

    Your experience certainly gives me pause but I truly believe this is still a product of a lack of learning how to play pocket ball in high school, I mean at all. It's only obvious to me as a fan when I see a player coming at him and I expect him to pick it up but he doesn't, often.

    He's great and I'm proud of him and hope he continues to clock yards and runs like yesterday and without the pocket issues, he's qb of the day.

    Excuse typos.. Phone .
  11. G8R92
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    G8R92 Well-Known Member

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    Speedgator84 - well put on your post above. And by the way, Burton admitted that he ran the wrong route following the timeout which resulted in the interception. Much easier to pin it and pile on the QB though.
  12. samit23
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    samit23 Well-Known Member

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    Great post Speedgator. I know Muschamp is looking for a game manager at QB but do you think encouraging a bit more creativity would help Jeff in the other area you cited through an increase in confidence?

    Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry
  13. 95Gator
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    95Gator Well-Known Member

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    ^yeah but the interception is a part of the game. So is a fumble. Consistent lack of pocket awareness should not be and with his good play throughout if that is removed, blow out even with the interception. Props to Burton for saying that though.

    The last two plays of the game were a microcosm of why we lost. Not coached up enough and pocket issues.
  14. Speedgator84
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    In response, I'm not saying that it has to be one or the other...its both. However, I still believe its more pedagogical.

    You say that its a product of playing more pocket ball in hgh school...Well, I give you the previous Gator QB of a couple years ago, JB. He was one of the most prolific pocket passers in HS with a great former QB as a his high school coach. You cant tell me he didn't learn "pocket ball" ...yet he had the same issues as JD. I see it as a larger problem with methods as the premise. I appreciate the discussion...awesome observations!
  15. samit23
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    samit23 Well-Known Member

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    Speed, it's hard to get too far down on JD for me when I see some of the throws he made while getting smashed by Miami's D. He stepped into some throws and showed tremendous courage. I do think the staff will need better play design in the redzone and we will need to stay more committed to the run when we get there.

    Do you think the lack of a reliable TE to check to is a problem for a QB in the redzone?

    Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry
  16. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    Good stuff, Speedgator84.

    95Gator, I agree with your assessment. In HS, JD was always able to buy time with his legs and, in effect, slow down the game, keep looking down field for the pass play while he was calmly rolling out (without D1 level defenders chasing him down) and if no pass play was available he would run (at the very last second) for about 19 yards (without D1 level defenders chasing him down).
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  17. Speedgator84
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    samit23,

    That is exactly what I mentioned to one of my athletes that I was watching the game with. If you look at every successful QB, they are distinguished leaders. Their personalities or brand, for lack of a better word, influences the team and it is embraced.

    Saying that, it appears that JD confidence has taken a hit in that he appears to be out of character. To an anaylyst yesterday, all you heard was that Florida's offense has "no identity". That does not bode well for our team. What do you think about when you hear these names Tahj Boyd, Teddy Bridgewater, AJ McCarron, Aaron Murray, Kevin Hogan, Marcus Mariota, and even Jameis Winston. They have developed great confidence in being able to use their creativity and basically be themselves while still sustaining their offenses. As we have seen, JD has immense physicalability and talent, however, I just dont see that presently being developed in JD. Thats why I said above that is primarly pedagogical and is much larger than "pocket ball". "Branding" a QB/offense takes a bit more introspective from your QB's perspective. I think you hit it right on the head.
  18. 95Gator
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    95Gator Well-Known Member

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    You think he had the same issues as JB? I just don't. I see JD as a future NFL player that has skills all over him in college. The other guy didn't play well at any level as a collegiate athlete. I know I'm a broken record here but look at junior and senior reels and find a single drop back. He ran out of the pocket on contact with the ball. The good news is he didn't learn any bad tendencies in the pocket, he just leaned none.

    I think the comparison to JB is off. JD has so much more upside. Better passer (in college), better manager, better runner. I JB was not bad in the pocket because of HS, it's because he was a bust out of Ocala. He waited and got his chance and he should have never had it.

    To the uninitiated, Jacobe was a better qb than JD but when JD is a starting qb in the NFL and Jacobe doesn't make it on a practice squad they will think otherwise. It's on the coaches. JD is not just good, he's fantastic and they need to be aware of the issues and coach around it while giving him the reps in game to learn. With 28 seconds, he should have been rolling out as it was obvious what was going to happen, so it happened once and then a penalty. All of that is on the coaches. I know we wouldn't have driven the field most likely but it's a coaching bad decision. If yesterday was a chess game, we played everything right but on several occasions just exposed the king and that will lose the game. Because I knew this issue, the coaches should too.

    Only so much you can do to stop fumbles, interceptions, bad routes to etc. The X factor is JDs lack of feel in the pocket and it should have been coached around in a close game. I respect your experience and even defer to you as right but hey, I would have never gone for two and Muschamp did so I'm one of those guys that think even the experts can make mistakes. Not saying you are, just sayin.
  19. Speedgator84
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    Yes, I do...but I do believe the backs could be used better coming out of the back field. But getting back to what you said, I believe being more committed to the run and having the tight end run a route out of a power-running formation would definitely increase our red zone chances.
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  20. 95Gator
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    95Gator Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree.

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