Health care lessons from Sweden

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Row6, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Clearly number two but you're setting up a false dichotomy. Yes, there would obviously be more attorney profit in the second situation but those aren't the only two situations. Moreover, clear cases of liability rarely progress far, and when they settle outside of trial attorneys don't take sqq. Besides, clients are not required to use a contingent fee arrangement.

    Insurer costs are largely tied up in defense attorney costs (which they negotiate to absurdly low rates in most cases).

    No system is perfect but what some advocate would create a harsh injustice to those most deserving or most wronged.
  2. QGator2414
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    As we create an environment where attorneys are more discriminating (less frivolous law suits) we will begin to at least shift the defensive medicine that occurs...

    Now the best way to reduce costs is to get government out of the way and start selling insurance instead of products by regulated middlemen that are called insurance companies (yes they don't mind it)...
  3. wargunfan
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    wargunfan Well-Known Member

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    Tell you what, let's limit the attorney's share of an award to 10% of the award plus actual expenses; then we'll talk. You're not going to find any sympathy for fat cat personal injury lawyers here.
  4. LittleBlueLW
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    LittleBlueLW Well-Known Member

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    Well you understand the scenarios but to be more precise, every other possible scenario between hypothetical 1 and 2 results in increased attorney fees.

    The real injustice is that those 'most deserving or most wronged' can put a monetary value on what makes it all better.
  5. wargunfan
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    wargunfan Well-Known Member

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    Most law firms with multiple lawyers have a case board wherein they examine the cases submitted to the firm and cherry pick the likely winners. They go for the low hanging fruit and politely refuse the harder cases. There is little or no altruism involved. These are business men bent on making the max payday for the least effort. If you're looking for the white knight attorney go watch TV.
  6. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    No different from any other business.
  7. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Sure, then attorneys will shift 100% to "pay as you go" rather than also using contingent fees and the most destitute of plaintiffs will not have the means of seeking recourse. You're living in a bubble of you think that's the solution. Contingent fees are a reflection of the risks (absorbing plaintiff's and attorney risk) and immense amount of hours spent pursuing these matters.
  8. wargunfan
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    wargunfan Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. So let's subject them to tort reform and lower the cost of practicing medicine which will lower the cost of insurance for all of us.
    Just look at the yellow pages in any city and see who is spending $3000 per month for full page color ads or $10,000 per month for the front page and back page of the phone book. It sure isn't the local hospital. You paid for those ads in higher medical bills and increased insurance premiums.
  9. wargunfan
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    wargunfan Well-Known Member

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    Destitute plaintiffs will get more not less if contingent fees are lowered from their current 30%-50% range. Case preparation costs would be reimbursed at 100%. What you are saying is that it is a greed driven system for the lawyers and you are exactly right.
  10. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    In 2009 (most recent year in study), the average per capita cost for health care for an American was $6815. For Minnesotans it was $7409. Want to try again?

    kff.org/other/state-indicator/health-spending-per-capita/
  11. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Pick a country! The author happened to be working in Sweden. Since we spend more than anyone - on average the rest of the developed world spends 60% what we do - you can pick one where everyone's name ends with a vowel and get the same result.
  12. QGator2414
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    As sad as it is you got give row credit for his passion to limit healthcare options for Americans. As well as his belief he should not be forced into a single payer system to provide shelter for others but he should be able to force doctors into that kind of system.

    :smoke:
  13. ThePlayer
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    ThePlayer Well-Known Member

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    percentage of hot blondes :slapper:
  14. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    1 Saying there are no cost containment measures in the ACA is just bull s..t. They are limited due to political demagoguery by death panel screamers in the GOP and by industry special interests.If republicans had decided to get in the game instead of playing Waterloo roulette then, or instead of playing repeal it now, maybe we could have more. Your opposition with no alternative except tort reform nonsense says it all. Hey, can I get a bill to keep people from suing me? I don't like paying for liability insurance either.

    [/INDENT]"Many commentators have claimed that the bill focuses mostly on coverage and contains little in the way of cost control.

    Yet we would argue that even from a purely “green eyeshade” viewpoint, the bill will significantly reduce costs. Projections suggest that with reform, total health care expenditures as a percentage of the gross domestic product will be 0.5% lower in 2030 than they would otherwise have been. In addition, although the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) expressed concern that health care costs will remain high even after reform, it also determined that the ACA will reduce the federal budget deficit by more than $100 billion over the first decade and by more than $1 trillion between 2020 and 2030. And the Commonwealth Fund recently projected that expenditures for the whole health care system will be reduced by nearly $600 billion in the first decade......"[/INDENT]

    Lengthy discussion follows fir those who are serious

    www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1006571

    2 Gee, everyone else in the neighborhood has a Civic but I want a Lexus with a sunroof but can't afford it. What's a poor lad to do?
  15. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    In 2011 the US had 3 hospital beds for every 1000 citizens. Sweden had 2.7, France had 6, and Finland had 5.9.

    data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS
  16. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    I said just like any business. What's yours? You want me to lobby for a limit on what you charge? What a ridiculous notion.
  17. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    I see, everyone but attorneys can seek out wealth. So ridiculous.

    And you live in a fantasy land if you think attorneys will work for that. Attorneys won't carry the risk at such a low level so a destitute plaintiff won't have someone to represent them. Plaintiffs with means can pay for an attorney to work at an hourly rate. Honestly, many attorneys would probably prefer that since they'd have income certainty instead of acting as an insurance company balancing the risks of all your clients.
  18. gatordowneast
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    Agree, as they want "something for nothing". Government has a role for the "collective good". Police and fire protection at the local level. A strong military for our defense at the national level. Schools at the local level. Safe food and water at both state and local. Roads and transportation at local, state and fed level. Other examples.

    But government has no role in taking funds from you or I and redistributing them to someone else because they decide to.
  19. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    What were you saying about Minnesota up thread? I guess the place went downhill after Prince moved in.
  20. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    The response of many to the facts laid out in the article regarding our health care system is to blame it on poor people, or more precisely, those without blond hair. Having shown that Minnesota is among the more expensive health care states and that Sweden is not an outlier - only the place among many (how about all) with dramatically lower health care costs but the one the author was very familar with - where do you go to prove this point? We have the world's most expensive system and we don't even cover every one, but I guess it's the fault of the blacks and latins and before them the Italians and Poles.

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