Health care lessons from Sweden

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Row6, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    The OP has a life, especially on father's day. Since no one has offered any response supported by data, I'm just enjoying the flailing.
  2. candymanfromgc
    Offline

    candymanfromgc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,542
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +513
    Best you can do huh?
  3. JerseyGator01
    Offline

    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    15,479
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +803
    This has to be one of the stupidest articles I've ever read. To blame infant mortality solely on our healthcare system is just laughable. Where does the NYT get these hacks?
  4. oldgator
    Offline

    oldgator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    13,605
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +139
    high rate of infant mortality is due to a lot of reasons in the U.S.
    ---poor nutrition
    ---poor education of parent(s)
    ---poor pre-natal nutrition
    ---drugs/alcohol in mother and/or father
    ---violence(this is a scary one folks in America. the rate is incredibly high of infant abuse by one or both parents and/or siblings)(as a nurse I've seen infants brought into hospitals who have been burned with cigarettes, burned with scalding water, whipped by electrical cords, dislocated shoulders or hips from being thrown around, skull fractures, etc. And more often than not the guilty parent had been similarly abused as a child themself)
    ---accidents--automobile accidents, accidents around the house(electrical, drowning, gun, poisonous household solutions the child drinks by mistake, etc)

    healthcare in America has its issues but once an infant or child enters medical care they tend to do better than in most countries
  5. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    According to the article the US spends about $8,000 a year per capita. According to the article linked below, which quotes an organization opposed to immigration reform, we spend about $10.7 billion on health care for illegal immigrants. Let's do the math:

    1 At approximately 300 million Americans, that's $36 (no zeroes) increase per US citizen.

    2 At approximately 11 million illegal immigrants, that's $972 per illegal immigrant.

    Given that illegals are mostly young and afraid to use health care for fear of being caught - most expenditures are on true emergency care and child birth - these low numbers make sense.

    Given that Sweden - and most other civilized countries - have universal coverage, and so treat everyone, advantage us as far as carrying dead weight goes.

    www.reuters.com/article/2009/08/17/us-usa-healthcare-immigration-factbox-sb-idUSTRE57G53I20090817
  6. chemgator
    Offline

    chemgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,893
    Likes Received:
    273
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,334
    You forgot to mention how many illegal immigrants that Sweden has.

    And does anyone really know how many illegal immigrants are in the U.S.? It could be double or triple the number you gave. I'm guessing they don't wave the flag at census takers.

    I agree, though, the immigrants are not the biggest problem with health care costs. Lawsuits, with all their direct and indirect effects, are probably among the biggest, along with poor education.
  7. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    There are no studies showing significant savings from tort reform. Health care costs in Texas went up at a rate higher.than the national rate after enacting it. However, Obama has offered to deal with those favoring them, so write your congressman and tell him to knock off wasting his time in repeal and start working with democrats to improve the law.
  8. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,006
    Likes Received:
    380
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,579
    I take it you're not a fan of Bjorn Borg, ABBA or Swedish Erotica?
  9. CHFG8R
    Offline

    CHFG8R Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    7,006
    Likes Received:
    380
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    St. Augustine, FL
    Ratings Received:
    +1,579

    Boy do these two seem connected. Looking beyond the obvious barbarity of these actions, is just how stupid they are. It's a baby. It doesn't understand the concept of punishment. When it's hungry, it cries. When it's uncomfortable, it cries. When it hurts, it cries. It doesn't understand that it's getting punished for crying.

    This is one of those "I kinda get Hitler" moments for me. Not the specific targeting of racial groups, mentally disabled, etc. . . but there are some people whose mere existence is a burden the world would be better off without.
  10. WESGATORS
    Offline

    WESGATORS Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    21,561
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,099
    I'd be interested to see how our best hospitals compare to their best hospitals. Are our numbers being brought down by areas where the quality of care isn't as great?

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  11. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    We are paying twice what they pay. How crappy do their "best hospitals" have to be relative to ours to have that be the difference?
  12. ncbullgator
    Offline

    ncbullgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +448
    Finally, something we agree on. Americans are fat. Are Swedes?

    How many new drugs, devices etc. has Sweden invented?

    Plenty more.

    :no:
  13. WESGATORS
    Offline

    WESGATORS Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    21,561
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,099
    I guess what I'm saying is the aggregate "we" could probably be granulated to help understand the costs better. Are we paying too much in the way of extra procedures to help reduce lawsuits? Are we paying for medical care that we really don't need? What are the specific areas where we are trailing with respect to Sweden. Are some parts of the country doing it better than others?

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  14. ncbullgator
    Offline

    ncbullgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +448
    Hey Row, how about finding an article about how Swedes pay less for their "college" education?

    The reason: costly benefits paid to professors.

    :grin:
  15. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    There are plenty of studies on differences. Among the primary ones are that we pay based on procedures and docs are mostly payed on procedures - rather than salary - and we don't set pricing for drugs or services like they do elsewhere. Legal fees add, though several studies show not much.
  16. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    Sorry, I don't get the joke.
  17. ncbullgator
    Offline

    ncbullgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +448
    You wouldn't.

    While you criticize the "costly" differences of health care between countries, you won't accept the fact that your profession is one of the main reasons student debt has skyrocketed.

    The entire educational establishment needs to be torn down.

    :grin:
  18. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    I'm a builder.
  19. neisgator
    Offline

    neisgator Belligerent Gator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    10,618
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Quincy IL
    Ratings Received:
    +106
    Just think of all the articles you have read about Americans going to Sweden for medical procedures....oh wait...
  20. gatordowneast
    Offline

    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,730
    Likes Received:
    302
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +984
    Row, this is an absolutely absurd comparison. Why don't you compare Sweden to Minnesota which would be a more accurate picture? Sweden had 9.5 M residents and the largest minority population are Finns. 85% live in urban areas and commute to work by bicycle or walk. They don't have 50 M on food stamps sucking down free government soda pop and twinkies.

    We've done this to ourselves. Personal Responsibility is the answer. Obamacare is not the answer....right now it is one huge problem. How many companies have cut workers back to less than 30 hours due to skyrocketing benefit costs coming because of Obamacare.

Share This Page