Hanoi Jane Praised By Samatha Power

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by diehardgator1, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. wygator
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    wygator Well-Known Member

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    Here's her remorse. Don't know exactly when this was taken, but she's clearly older. Wearing a t-shirt depicting herself in full mugshot protest mode:

    [​IMG]
  2. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    You'll probably find me to be one of the only moderate/conservatives who literally hates Ronald Reagan with a passion that eclipses my distaste for Jane Fonda. There are bad deeds all over the place, and there's plenty of so-called conservatives with plenty of skeletons in the closet. My take is that extremes are in a circle. The more someone claims they're conservative, the more they have something hidden that would prove them otherwise. The more liberal someone claims they are (ie, Jane Fonda) the closer they are to having some kind of conservative belief (ie, her rants against capitalism and talking about how perfect communism was, then comes back from 'Nam and begins to sell workout tapes and marry one of the richest men around).

    And frankly, why did you need to bring that up? This is based on the actions of one individual, politics aside. I have no problem with protests. Men and women have died defending freedom of speech. But what she and others did went BEYOND mere protests.

    Kerry lied about his service. Plenty of others (both parties) have as well, and that's despicable. Again, doesn't matter the party.
  3. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    My dad used to talk about those who protested. He didn't mind them. The ones that brought it to the scale of physical assaults (ie, the urine baggies being thrown on them on returning) and beyond were there ones that got him worked up. To protest, for him, was a right he was fighting for and protecting. To attack others was not.

    His take? "Folks have a right to protest and argue their point of view. I have the right to tell them they're full of **it."
  4. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Fonda could have been on a treason conviction if tried and convicted. Kerry as well. Ayers I doubt committed a capital offense. Don't know if depraved heart murder was a capital crime when and where Kennedy committed it.

    Oh, I'm sorry, was your pithy simper meant to suggest I had called all four traitors? No, I called them despicable pieces of crap, that part of who they are isn't criminal -- I am not a leftist, I don't believe in criminalizing that with which I do not agree. But all four of then certainly committed more than a handful of crimes as well.
  5. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Good point.
  6. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Ayers - he and others in his group were assembling some bombs when two of those involved were killed by the bomb they were building. I think at least he should've been in jail for a long time. Kennedy was drunk driving and someone got killed - certainly should've faced big-time charges on that.

    You know what? The problem is that they could've brought all those charges on Fonda and Kerry; however, it would've almost martyred Fonda. You see everyone still clamoring to say how wonderful she is? Imagine if she had gotten charged and was found guilty of treason and then executed.
  7. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    Several individuals were mentioned, all Democrats. That's why.
  8. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Agreed that that happens to be their "party" affiliation; however, this main thread is about Hanoi Jane and it so happens those mentioned are also Democrats. I didn't like Romney because he's a draft dodger and often thought Bush Jr had his way out of Nam bought by daddy's money. However, neither one of them that I know of actively set bombs, or went around singing and dancing with the VC or did propaganda for the other side, etc.

    Their actual political views, however, have nothing to do with the despicable nature of their acts, especially Hanoi Jane's. It's more of a coincidence - at least to me.
  9. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    I cannot find anywhere where she apologized or asked for forgiveness- please feel free to link it
  10. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    I'd never heard of the urine bags, but the claim that many were spit on has been shown to be much more rumor than fact.
  11. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Sure...here's one of them -

    http://www.aspecialdayguide.com/yorktown/apology.htm

    It's a long post that details what she did, but it does list the following at the bottom:

    "Here's the newest apology in Oprah Winfrey's magazine: "I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft carrier... which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. ...It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless."

    Here's a cbs one

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-215_162-692015.html

    They did clarify that she uses "regret" a lot.

    http://frontpagemag.com/2012/ben-shapiro/jane-fonda-finally-apologizes/

    "Now, four decades removed, sitting in the lap of luxury, Fonda has decided that the pictures on the anti-aircraft gun were a mistake. Not the actual visit – she stands by that. “I did not, have not, and will not say that going to North Vietnam was a mistake,” she said. “I have apologized only for some of the things that I did there, but I am proud that I went.”"

    further down..."Back in July 2011, she spelled out why she regretted the anti-aircraft gun photo:


    It happened on my last day in Hanoi. I was exhausted and an emotional wreck after the 2-week visit. It was not unusual for Americans who visited North Vietnam to be taken to see Vietnamese military installations and when they did, they were always required to wear a helmet like the kind I was told to wear during the numerous air raids I had experienced. When we arrived at the site of the anti-aircraft installation (somewhere on the outskirts of Hanoi), there was a group of about a dozen young soldiers in uniform who greeted me. There were also many photographers (and perhaps journalists) gathered about, many more than I had seen all in one place in Hanoi. This should have been a red flag ….

    Here is my best, honest recollection of what happened: someone (I don’t remember who) led me towards the gun, and I sat down, still laughing, still applauding. It all had nothing to do with where I was sitting. I hardly even thought about where I was sitting. The cameras flashed. I got up, and as I started to walk back to the car with the translator, the implication of what had just happened hit me. “Oh my God. It’s going to look like I was trying to shoot down U.S. planes.”"

    Her "apologies" coincided with a movie she was shooting (the Oprah one) being protested by New England vets and the announcement that she'll be playing Nancy Reagan (The latest 2011 one)
  12. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Considering I heard it from my dad and 2 others that came home with him on funeral detail to bring a casket home (incidentally the cousin of my mom's boyfriend at the time) on separate occasions, and that my uncle ADMITTED to doing such a thing to a different group of soldiers coming home to PR, I take it as fact.
  13. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    At least one book has been written about the subject which found a complete lack of actual incidents. I remember reading the author's comments that the alleged incidents always involved some angry protester spitting on the vet who then shrank off humiliated. Do you think the vet wouldn't have slugged the spitter? Yet no one can find any police records of that happening either.
  14. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Funny thing about Fonda's remorse to me is how impenetrably dense she is to the full scope. What the hell was she doing in Hanoi, at all? She wants to protest the war, do it from whatever liberal cloister she was haunting at the time. She had no business being in Vietnam in the first place unless it was a USO show.
  15. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you're calling my family liars, River.

    Edited to add:

    Guess this vet's lying, too..

    Fellow Vietnam vet Roseanna Evans has the same diagnosis and experiences similar symptoms—like embarrassing duck-and-cover reactions to fireworks and periodic outbursts of public violence. But these symptoms materialized during the Gulf War, after she already had PTSD from Vietnam. Though no less serious, her initial PTSD was not suffered in combat, but on an army base in Oakland, California.

    Evans, who is 60, grew up in a military family stationed in Newport, Rhode Island. It had been her dream since childhood to serve in the Air Force. Deemed too light at 100 pounds, she instead took up with the Army and was sent to Oakland, California in 1969. In the politically-charged Bay Area, Evans was vilified. “They asked the women to march in the parade. We got bombarded by bags of defecation, we got bottles of urine thrown on us, we got spit at, we had bricks… thrown at us. And then we was called out—our names, we were told we were either gay or prostitutes. At the age of 18 that’s kind of hard to deal with.” Throughout the 70s, on reserve duty, Evans was periodically homeless in Oakland, sleeping on park benches. In 1970 she became pregnant from a rape by a fellow soldier on the base.

    from: http://students.brown.edu/College_Hill_Independent/?p=4392

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1276799/posts - posts from people debunking what I suppose to be one of the books you were looking at. Note that he looked at "news" stories. You really think there were news crews at every single homecoming? It's not like today where the news hurries up to show up and see how patriotic everyone is.
  16. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    I'm not calling anyone a liar. No one can prove a negative ... that something never, ever happened. I've just read a lot of stuff that calls it into question. I'm a Vietnam-era vet and knew a lot of guys who were there and never heard anyone talk about it.
    As far as that woman's story .. I don't know. Seems like people throwing bricks at soldiers in a parade would have produced arrests and multiple news stories.
    I looked an couldn't find a word about it. I didn't spend much time and maybe I missed it.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    I don't think Fonda apologize for her war protests. What she apologized for was her trip to Hanoi and having her picture taken on the AA guns.

    I hated the war and don't apologize for that at all. Has nothing to do with the people who served (many of them were, and still are, my friends) and has everything to do with those who sent them over there.
  18. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    An important point that you seldom bring up but I was aware of. I've heard people who never served a day call your loyalty into question.
  19. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, what struck me was that, if she instantly realized the picture made it look like she was donning an anti aircraft gun against American planes and was shocked/dismayed at the implication (as she claims in her "apology")---WhyTF did she wait 30+ years to acknowledge it being wrong?
  20. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    A lot of people lie about weird stuff with Vietnam or the 60s. Like Joseph Ellis, author of lots of history books, university professor. Totally lied about being in the war.



    http://www.seattlepi.com/ae/books/article/Ellis-doesn-t-want-to-revisit-his-own-past-1161328.php

    There's been a few candidates for office that have totally lied about serving too, or being involved in the civil rights campaign, or protests. Some of them in spite of it being very easy to disprove their claims.

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