Hanoi Jane Praised By Samatha Power

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by diehardgator1, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. cjgator76
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    cjgator76 Well-Known Member

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    I can understand that the lasting animosity directed at Fonda would be hard to grasp for those who weren't around back then.

    A lot of it stems from the fact that she didn't just attack the U.S. policies or our pols, she didn't just attack the grunts, she didn't just praise the enemy, she actually aimed her vitriol at our POWs, many of whom had been held for years and had their bodies and minds shattered in the process. She characterized the POWs as liars and malingerers at a time when most Americans had seen pictures of POWs who resembled Auschwitz survivors.

    The reaction to Fonda wasn't just a matter of who was pro- or anti- war. Fonda's actions outraged and repulsed many Americans who were staunchly against the war.
    Her actions were so beyond the pale that it's hard to come up with a modern analogy, but it might be something like this: Beautiful, pampered child of show biz royalty goes to Iraq or A-stan during the war there... tours IED manufacture sites and poses happily with the bomb makers .... holds herself out as an authority while accusing U.S. troops coming home minus limbs with exaggerating their injuries ... and gladly plays along while our enemies - who are still killing Americans - feature her in their propaganda campaigns.

    As for Ayers vs. Fonda, at the time Ayers was essentially unknown outside the campus left and more radical anti-war circles. Fonda was an established star and her exploits were big MSM news.
  2. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Hear hear...
  3. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Your response was: "And you are not my judge, priest or God himself to say that because I find her to be disgusting, despicable and a poor excuse for a human being that I am somehow unworthy to follow God."

    I can understand how you might have been confused or offended by what I wrote. I am sorry for that and I'll try to 'unpack' it a little as my comments both then and now are not intended to offend.

    I think a faithful follower of the Christ should make every effort to also follow the teachings of Jesus and obey his instructions. Near supreme in those teachings is the instruction to deal with other people as we in turn wish to be dealt. Contained within the Lord's Prayer is the essential principle that we will be forgiven as we forgive. It's not an easy instruction to obey and the ego mightily resists it. Some of us really enjoy nurturing our hurts and resentful attitudes and find it difficult to turn loose of them. It enables us to feel superior to people who have offended or hurt us or other people with whom we may identify in our mutual society.

    But if we truly believe Jesus and what he taught, and trust - or have enough faith - we will make the effort to set aside our egoistic impulses and tendencies to follow/obey his teachings. We will be worthy of being identified as a follower - a Christian. Is a person who willfully harbors unforgiveness towards another truly entitled to call him/herself a Christian when an essential principle is willfully or intentionally ignored or disobeyed? I don't think so. This is one of those areas in life where we "work out [our] salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:3-12

    You are not "unworthy to follow God." You might perhaps consider though, if you feel - and why you feel - entitled to call yourself a Christian when you are unwilling to obey this essential principle in the Lord's prayer. Forgiving others is a win/win to your advantage. I don't think you are unable to forgive Fonda, but I do think - for whatever reason - you have been unwilling to forgive her. To discover that reason will perhaps take diligent contemplation and intensive introspection.

    Again, I mean no personal offense but do realize my thoughts and opinions expressed on this forum do tend to be blunt. These thoughts and opinions apply not only to you but to anyone burdened with unforgiveness. And yeah, I've had my own struggles with it, too.

    I have no desire or inclination to defend Samantha Power's praise of Jane Fonda. At the very least it was misplaced and inappropriate, imo.
  4. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    queenie- I do not remember Fonda asking for forgiveness or apologizing for her treasonous act
  5. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    I remember the Oprah interview and had seen the so-called apologies referenced online when I was gathering the quotes. And basically what she mainly apologized for was being photographed, & even then it was for looking like she was pretending to shoot US planes. I have an early shift so I can't look it all back up, but think it's somewhat referenced on wiki.
  6. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    And I respect your opinion, but you can see how the quoted portion sounded. You're welcome to be blunt, but I tend to react & reply, too.

    Part of this is my dad's declining health, and he's sharing more & more of what happened- sometimes in his sleep. Last time he was visiting me he started having nightmares again. We live close to a National Guard base. He was breaking into a cold sweat with the bombers. His mind is going a bit. So it reopens a lot & keeps those feelings fresh. He also had a couple of buddies who were POWs, and didnt make it. He's recalled hearing her broadcasts, too, & just the feeling of betrayal, anger, sadness, disbelief that this was how they were seen. They didn't want to be there!! Then they started hearing it from their own families, how Fonda & others would only pick a good cause, & was it true they killed babies & children, etc.

    Maybe when he dies things will change, but for now, my hatred for her & her ilk won't die down. That includes my uncle, who did everything to dodge the draft & sent dad hate mail to the hospital where dad was recovering, among other things.
    Anyhow, off to work.
  7. kygator
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    kygator Well-Known Member

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    It is possible to let go of the hate without praising her actions.
  8. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    So why the demand to "forgive and forget" by those who choose to remember her deplorable actions?
  9. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Where did I demand that? As for others on this thread, I've seen people say: "forgive, but don't forget." If there are people doing this, then I can't really speak for them. I just was trying to understand why it was still such a big deal 40 years later for some people, as probably do many people who werent alive then.
  10. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    My brother in law was a Viet Nam vet, purple heart winner as a marine. He despised Jane Fonda. He despised John Kerry. He felt both were traitors. And neither apologized for their actions. Both attempted to "rationalize" and there is a big difference.
  11. GatorNorth
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    GatorNorth Premium Member Premium Member

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    Anyone with a sense of history or who was drafted to fight in a war they didn't believe in.

    She had every right to protest the war. What she did was treason and I'm a liberal.

    While we forgetting things because they happened "in like 1970", let's forget what Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan and James Earl Ray did in like the 1960's. Or what Hitler did in like 1940.

    Life doesn't work that way. And she's never shown a morsel of contrition.
  12. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    I keep hearing "treason," but was she ever charged with anything or suffer any legal action as a result of her actions?

    Also, some of the articles here indicated that she has shown remorse or contrition, she's even apologized, apparently.
  13. HallGator
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    HallGator Administrator VIP Member

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    I often wonder if people read what is posted in the threads before commenting.
  14. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    Kerry was a traitor too, huh? The net gets bigger ....
  15. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    The charge against Kerry probably stems from his attempts to conduct his own foreign policy and/or his participation in the Winter Soldier fiasco, with its "witnesses" who saw or even committed atrocities in Vietnam without ever having set foot outside the continental US, and the like. Kerry is a despicable piece of crap, so is Fonda. So is Bill Ayers. So was Ted Kennedy.
  16. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    I was not aware of her attempts to apologize, so I was wrong on that one.

    I'll be honest though and admit it doesn't exactly make me drop any grudges, but it does soften it a little bit. Perhaps in the future, I will forget it, but I doubt it.

    Fonda is considered a traitor because of her *actions*, not just her words. Attempting a half-hearted apology for what happened is a start, but if she truly was sincere (or smart) about it, there'd be some action too. Michael Vick continues to donate money and time to humane shelters and animal groups; the Chik-fil-a president has reached out to gay rights groups to try and find common ground...what has Fonda done?

    I ask that because I suspect nothing. Maybe she has and I'm unaware. But if this were truly her biggest regret and she genuinely respects veterans and their service, there are no shortage of veterans groups to donate or contribute to. Otherwise, her apology was a half-assed attempt to be contrite.
  17. metalcoater
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    metalcoater Member

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    At the American Legion they have Hanoi Jane urinal stickers.
  18. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    execute them all?
  19. fredsanford
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    fredsanford VIP Member

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    Thank goodness no conservatives have ever done anything despicable in this country's history. :sick:
  20. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    or protest against the government

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