Greedy Student Athletes Are Ruining Everything

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by gatorchamps0607, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. eViLG
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    eViLG Active Member

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    Couldn't disagree more.

    A college degree is worthless if you don't place value in it. The majority of football players on scholarship have NFL aspirations, not BS or MBA aspirations.

    I went to school at UF and worked 30 hours a week. I had classmates at UF who worked 40 hours a week, we're married with children and carried at least 9 credit hours. Many also had student loans, something our scholarship student athletes don't have to worry about. If they choose to, they can graduate from UF virtually debt free.
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  2. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    The thing is that you are ignoring that the student athletes are already exchanging their value for the tuition. They are working their butts off, so people like us can enjoy watching them on TV. So we'll pay to enjoy them at the stadium. So current students can feel pride in their school. The exchange is already complete.

    This EA sports exploitation is additional, without consent, without compensation and thus very likely illegal. It is not entitlement to ask for compensation. It is a right.
  3. GatorMcCluskey
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    GatorMcCluskey Well-Known Member

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    agreed, but it's more like an "Evel Knievel at the Grand Canyon" leap imo.
  4. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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  5. palmbayed
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    palmbayed Member

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    Ask Ed Chester if he thinks college athletes should get paid, what if D.E can't come back and doesn't play in the NFL. Gatorchamps gets on his high horse every chance he gets about this subject, give it a rest.
  6. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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    Your point? I wasn't aware that DE is going to get his scholarship revoked, that sucks man...

    Oh wait, he won't get it revoked, he's still getting a degree for free, cry me a river and queue the violin.
  7. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    Agreed.
  8. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    You really think players "work their butts off" for the fans? I would put money on that being way down their list of reasons. Players are working their butts off because they enjoy playing and want playing time. Many players in D1 FBS hold some kind of dream of playing at the next level as well.

    The way I see the balance sheet is that an athlete is provided tuition, room, board, coaching, use of facilities, provided exposure, etc. in exchange for playing for a team. It's hardly an unfair exchange.

    On the other hand, I don't believe EA should profit off them without some amount of compensation. That is a completely one sided "exchange."
  9. gatordavisl
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    gatordavisl Well-Known Member

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    I've heard coaches, fans, and media being more vocal about it. Perhaps some of the players are too, but I haven't noticed this.

    Football is not a child's game.
  10. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    No video games? The horror...
  11. msa3
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    msa3 Premium Member

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    Says who? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but there's no quantitative value put on watching athletes perform on the field or on the screen. A school could say every single penny they receive goes to funding the athletic program that made that video game recognition possible, and in most cases they'd be right.

    The interesting thing about this is that the entire framework of college sports is in jeopardy to because about 300 (?) of the 420,000 scholarship athletes in the NCAA have a what some consider a reasonable claim of being taken advantage of. I disagree with that notion -- I think tuition and all that goes with it is a fair trade-off -- but no one thinks that all SAs are making money for the schools, only the very top tier, and of that top tier, only a very few. And it is for the benefit of those few that the system is in jeopardy.

    One caveat for any lawyers out there : Can't the NCAA and member schools just make a provision on the scholarship agreement that the school and it's affiliates can use a player's likeness? If the player doesn't like it, he can not take the scholarship, but this has always seemed like an easy fix to me.
  12. bcdowling
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    bcdowling New Member

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    In 99% of cases, a collegiate athlete's likeness has zero value outside of their connection to school. We loved Janoris Jenkins to death until he got kicked off the team. Did you follow his career in anything approaching the same way after he left? That's what I thought. But why not? He's the same athlete and did the same awesome things at North Alabama. Our love of the players is just an abstraction of our love for the program. When players are profiting off that, they are really profiting off the program (and all the time and treasure the program has spent over decades building their brand).

    Let me give you a comparable example. When Pierce Brosnan was signed to play James Bond for several movies, he was contractually prohibited from wearing a tuxedo in any other sort of public or promotional venue (he had to get an exception for The Thomas Crowne Affair). Same principle. Brosnan as a good-looking guy in a tux is meaningless. Brosnan as a guy in a tux has advertising value solely because he plays James Bond.

    I agree that there should be some changes made to the whole amateur status thing. But this likeness thing is nonsense. Players are profiting off their affiliation with the team - not their own likeness. There are a couple exceptions (Tebow would have been one - his likeness had value outside of his position as the Gator QB) but you can come up with something to deal with those rare exceptions on a case by case basis. If Johnny Manziel was the QB at some small Division III school doing the exact same things he was doing now, 99% of the country would still have no idea who he is. You know who he is because Texas A&M has its own brand and has negotiated media deals (on its own and through the SEC) that make him a household name.
  13. palmbayed
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    palmbayed Member

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    Ask DE when he is about 30 years old and he is bone on bone in his knee if he should have been paid, I would think from your rantings you are a stanch capitalist so I would think they should get what they can
  14. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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    I did, but I'm a marijuana advocate so I don't see what he did as anything bad. Sure he was an idiot for getting caught multiple times but I don't hold it against him in any way. Also, he wasn't shunned by UF either, I believe he was invited to some sort of function even after he left the school.
  15. GatorLaw
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    GatorLaw Well-Known Member

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    You don't think the agents, financial advisors, and others who over the long term stand to make millions in fees and commissions have something to do with it?

    There's a lot of different factors that play into this. But the most important single reason IMO is that the general public looks at the money being made by everyone except the players and thinks the players deserve more than they're getting.

    Oh and BTW, when you figure out how a lawyer can file a law suit without having a client please let me know. I'd love to get in on some of this action. Unfortunately I don't have a client and therefore can't get in on it.
  16. tideroller
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    tideroller Member

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    As usual, the media and do-gooders are completely missing the point. The NCAA and universities aren't preventing these 18 year olds from making money or getting paid. They are simply saying "If you decide to play football within the framework of collegiate athletics or the NCAA you will not be paid cash."

    The real culprit here is the NFL (which the big media that have contracts to televise will never criticize). It is the NFL & NFLPA which have collectively bargained away the ability of high school graduates to cash in on their talents right away - not the NCAA. And if you think the NFL is going to pay the huge money to start up and predate a professional farm system to evaluate and develop football talent WHEN THE COLLEGES ARE DOING IT FOR THEM FOR FREE - then you don't know the NFL.
  17. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure about that, but Lawyers are easy to hate... j/k

    I have several good friends that are lawyers. :grin:

    And... most all agents are lawyers.
  18. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean to say that the fans are specifically in the minds of the students when they are training, but this is irrelevant because it is the basis of the exchange from the perspective of the school. The student can come to UF doesn't give scholarships to help the students get to the NFL. UF does it for the value that the students brings to the university.

    I pretty much agree here, except that I am not sure it is so easy to determine when an exchange is "fair". The standard method for an economist to use to determine value is the market, but there is no market for athlete labor. At least there is no price market (that is legal). So basically, the NCAA's price is determined through top down monopoly power. I'm not sure that their decided compensation is too low (in many cases it is probably too high), but I don't think we have a mechanism to determine fair value.

    I recall a study during Tebow's time that estimated that his value to the university was approx 10 million dollars. In a free market, what is his worth? If someone were to bring me 10 million dollars, I'd certainly be happy to pay them 5 million (and you'd probably outbid me and pay him 6 million). Clearly Tebow is an extreme case, but he is a good example of how price controls lead to inefficient outcomes. I'm not necessarily against it, as I love college football and I think education is valuable, but it is inefficient.

    Yeah, I think this is main issue here.
  19. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    Where did you get your information?

    From NCAA ...

    "Only 23 programs (all in the FBS) reported positive net generated revenue in 2012, the same number as in 2011. That number has ranged between 18 and 25 since 2004."

    As we are mainly talking about players in football and basketball, it seems more relevant to look at the revenues of those programs. From the NCAA for 2004-2012 ...

    "Between 50 and 60 percent of football and men’s basketball programs in FBS schools have reported net generated revenues (surpluses) for each of the nine years reported."
  20. G8R92
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    G8R92 Well-Known Member

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    That explains things, including your missing the entire point of bcdowling's post, which was about a player's likeness and value with and without the school.

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