Got a Cadillac health plan? Get ready to kiss it good bye!

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by PSGator66, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. HudsonGator

    HudsonGator New Member

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    Good post. This is what people on the right don't get, spending on healthcare has been on an unsustainable upward path for years prior to the ACA. The whole point of the ACA is to contain costs.

    I have yet to hear any Tea Party person come up with a way to bring costs down.

    Looking at that graph, it is not a solution to simply repeal the ACA.
  2. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    LOL!

    And selling across state lines, allow small business to group with trade associations, push HSA's, allow NP/PA's to own and operate small clinics, stop mandating coverages etc are ideas that would actually bring down costs.

    And yes you know these have been proposed by people like the Tea Party so you are either disingenuous or ignorant...
  3. HudsonGator

    HudsonGator New Member

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    Most of those things you list are ignorant platitudes.

    First, selling across state lines is an issue of Federalism. The state's have historically been the primary regulators of the insurance industry. To allow sales of insurance products across state lines (i.e. without regards to regulation by the state where you want to sell your insurance) may sound like a good idea, but it flies in the face of the Tea Party demi-God of State and local government good, Federal government bad. Put another way, there is nothing that prohibits an insurance company from selling policies in every State in the union, but it most comply with the laws and regulations of the various states in which it intends to sell its products. If you think that is an inefficient system, write your congressman and tell him you would like to see Federal preemption of the insurance industry (like what we saw happen to the interstate trucking industry in the Reagan Administration).

    Also, there is nothing in the ACA which prohibits NP/PA's from essentially practicing medicine, rather, once again that is a matter of state law, which by and large has been very protective of physicians. Some states allow PA/NP's to prescribe, others do not. If you want more non-physicians offering more medical care, write your state legislator, but be prepared to hear that the AMA is "concerned for the quality of care" and is against any infringement on its turf.

    Again, there is nothing in the ACA which prohibits HSA's.

    Finally, with regards to the mandatory coverages, it is true there are mandatory coverages provided for in the ACA, but there are also minimum coverages mandated by every state's insurance code. Part of that is a function of lobbying by various interest groups (e.g. mental health professionals, etc.), and part of it is a function of consumer protection, i.e. most people do not read, nor are they likely to understand the many provisions and exclusions contained in a standard insurance policy, and thus mandating certain basic coverages insures that consumers are not purchasing policies which are essentially worthless.
  4. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Part of being able to sell across state lines is to allow myself to purchase a policy without the mandates my state may require. If I want to assume that risk and most likely be out of network for the doctors in my area that should be my choice.

    Obamacare does nothing to promote autonomy for NP's/PA's...

    Obamacare instead of pushing HSA type policies which puts the patient and doctor more in charge will make the policies less desirable... http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...ill-make-health-savings-accounts-more-costly/

    I get you are a socialist but the disingenuousness/ignorance is palpable...

    Obamacare was signed without reading the bill for the purpose of power and control.
  5. mocgator

    mocgator Well-Known Member

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    THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION!!!!


    The question is... is it the stinking government with stinking politicians and stinking mindless bureaucrats the vehicle to pass out this "free health care". HELL NO IT ISN'T!!

    Americans are/ were the most decent people on Earth... in the entire history of man. The most charitable on the planet to this day. We would and have taken care of those via charity and faith based services for decades. When you make the government dole out "charity" not only is the moral good of charity robbed from the people... but people become less charitable. Look at the "charitability" of left leaning and socialist countries. Look at France, Germany, England, etc... Heck... look at the charitability of left leaning states in the USA. The same trend.

    Nanci Pelosi doling out this charity... are you all effing nuts??!!

    Need is not a claim on someone else's life... regardless of the need.
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  6. HudsonGator

    HudsonGator New Member

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    Again, if you want a National insurance market, write your congressman and tell him you want Federal preemption of the insurance industry and you will get your wish, no more interference from State governments on what you can and cannot buy. The irony of you wanting this to be a Federal as opposed to a State solution will not be lost on those of us who understand this issue, however.

    Again, NP/PA's are regulated by the States, if you want the Federal government to regulate who can and cannot practice medicine, I would encourage you to write your congressman and ask for Federal preemption in this area as well.

    With regards to HSA's, read that article and try to understand it before you post anymore on this subject.

    I get the fact that you need to call me a "socialist" in order to make yourself feel like you are winning the argument, but until you at least have a working knowledge of Federalism, comity, and the healthcare insurance industry, you need to post less.
  7. HudsonGator

    HudsonGator New Member

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    So government is the problem and you want to get rid of Medicaid and Medicare?

    And all those old people and poor people who need medical care will suddenly get it because we are all so damn collectively charitable?

    Got it.
  8. wgbgator

    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Buying healthcare "across state lines" is a non-solution. I'm not sure why it still holds any esteem. A bunch of people buying into a healthier risk pool means prices go up once claim frequency also increases, especially given that the people most likely to purchase coverage are the ones most likely to make claims.
  9. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    I want the federal government out of healthcare and state governments minimally involved.

    Obamacare did neither of these things. In fact it expanded them...
  10. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Just like before Medicare and medicaid they certainly will!
  11. gatordowneast

    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    Uh, our insurance has averaged about 13-14% increase last two years in anticipation of ACA (what our insuror said). Haven't seen rate increase yet but I'm emotionally prepared for 20-30% increase.

    Now suppose the demos (with no pub votes) had not passed ACA? Wonder how things may be different today? Would economy be growing at a faster rate? Would more of our jobs created be full time? Would millions of workers not have had their hours cut? Would less be on food stamps? Would our rate increases have been 5-6% like during prior years?

    Hmmm. We will never know. And History will hang this turd around the Big Barack's neck with both little Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi sniffing his hind end. What a picture?
  12. HudsonGator

    HudsonGator New Member

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    I see, so no Federal role in healthcare, so you don't want Medicare when you get older?

    Polls show you are in the minority on this issue.

    As for "minimal" state involvement, that sounds nice, but without defining what you mean by "minimal" it is meaningless.

    You've got the Tea Party talking points down, I'll give you that much.
  13. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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  14. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    No I don't want Medicare. I want to keep my taxes that are being redistributed. Of course polls show people like it. They get more than they paid for. For NOW!
  15. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    I want the state to be there to make sure contracts are followed and provide major care for those who cannot provide for themselves after family, charity, and the local community are exhausted. The Feds should not be involved. Unfortunately that is not a plausible scenario thanks to the statists...
  16. icequeen

    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    Outside of the Obamacare argument this needs to be regulated and made into something more uniform. NP/PAs provide a ton of services short of stand-alone surgeries in some states, and then don't have much greater power than an LPN in others. Obviously an MD has more education plus the specialty, but especially to bring costs down, the use of NP/PA (and even senior RNs) for basic care services would be an advantage.

    As for the AMA being upset by it, some time ago there was an article about the shortage of general practitioners because the MDs wanted to go to specialty fields, avoid handling so much Medicare, etc (don't have time to look it up right now, sorry). I think that if you were to have a head doctor in charge to oversee/sign off on things, and then the rest of the care done by NP/PAs this would help a greater amount of people. In a lot of underserved areas, patients are more likely to see an NP/PA

    However, (this part ties into Obamacare) the billing for this? Let me tell you. There's a code for the Medical Assistant that does the vitals. There's a code for the NP/PA that sees the patient. Then there's a code for the doctor who signs off on the chart/sees the patient for 3 minutes to make sure the NP/PA did their job. All three get paid on that visit. There's just too much doubling up on billing/services.

    As for the Medicare/Medicaid issue - again, it's the wastefulness going on, plus the fact that you have so many people in the government rolls right now that don't deserve to be on there (ex, those who went on disability because they couldn't work, not because they were disabled).

    Socialized healthcare, I suppose, would be the way to provide bad healthcare to everyone versus good healthcare to some and marginal to others. So basically, since a few are getting screwed, hey let's screw everybody. Well everybody as long as they're not in Congress...or someone important, or those that can afford to pay the extra fees.

    bolshoe spasibo, Comrades.
  17. mocgator

    mocgator Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm glad you are so charitable with my earnings....

    Got it.
  18. HudsonGator

    HudsonGator New Member

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    Posting it twice won't make you understand it any better.


    Fine. Nothing says you have to be on Medicare. When you turn 65 don't enroll. I am sure you will change your mind when you see what a private insurance policy costs, however.
  19. HudsonGator

    HudsonGator New Member

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    Good and thoughtful post. I agree with you that we should expand the use of NP/PA's to provide more access to healthcare at a reduced cost. As I previously said, this is an area which has always been left to the States, but perhaps the Federal government may need to play a role in expanding the use of NP/PA's, as State legislatures have been reluctant to do this due to the lobbying of the AMA.

    With regards to Medicaid/Medicare, the fact of the matter is that they are more efficient than private insurance when it comes to the percent spent on administrative costs versus actual costs of care.

    There are literally hundreds of studies out there that unequivocally demonstrate that we pay far more as a society on healthcare and are yet less healthy than just about the entire industrialized world.

    The ACA is an effort to remedy that fact.

    I am still waiting for the Tea Party to come up with a viable alternative which will give us better outcomes for less money than we were spending prior to the ACA.
  20. HudsonGator

    HudsonGator New Member

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    Question, do you believe in government at all?

    Should the government tax you to pay for schools, roads, the military?

    Just curious, as I find it fascinating that there are people like you actually among us.

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