GOP mayor compares atheists to Nazis and the KKK

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by fastsix, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think the illustration of the snake was on purpose...
    I think you missed the nuance of the posters message.
  2. PSGator66
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    PSGator66 Well-Known Member

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    I applaud the mayor.
  3. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    You ask why I think people should not use the word "attack"? Apparently you missed this in post 95 on page 5:

    There are many incidents of genuine persecution against Christians in other parts of the world. The complaints of American Christians about incidents like, or similar, to the one referenced in the OP are trivial in comparison. In no way should they rightfully be considered an "attack."
  4. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Unlikely. Plank's intentions are transparent.
  5. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    That's fine. If that indeed ends up being the truth, I'm fine having lived my life in as good and just a way as I can and not getting into heaven. If Dhamer is there and Ghandi got snubbed, that's a club I don't care to be in. Enjoy.

    And the narcissism comment was not towards god, but towards humans who feel like their life is important and must mean something.
  6. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    because comparing atheists to Nazis and the KKK is some an intelligent thing to do?
  7. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    But most would say that living a life aimed at serving, loving and improving those we connect with is the opposite of narcissistic. The actions of true Christian faith are selfless.
  8. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    No. People like the mayor give all Christians a bad rap, and the media...and fastsix.... love it.
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  9. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that. I was referring to the notion that without a divine being, there is no purpose to humans being here. That it's all for not. I don't agree that we have a purpose for being here any more than the ant on the ground has a purpose for being here.
  10. gatorplank
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    gatorplank Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha...I think if you knew everything that God does you'd have a different opinion than what you wrote in that 1st paragraph. It seems to me like your attitude is basically, "God might judge me, but I am really my own judge." And I think this is what Tilly was driving at in an earlier post. We don't have the power to will truth into existence like God does. In the real world the argument that I am my own Supreme Court doesn't really hold up in front of the Supreme Court because it simply is not true. In the same way, "I am my own judge" won't hold up in God's court because it simply is not true.

    I think from God's perspective the narcissist is the person who lives as if he/she is his/her own judge rather than living as if God is his/her judge.

    As for your second paragraph I think that life having meaning and life being important are 2 different things. Jesus said, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

    What we read here is that life is important, but it's not important because we are important. What we do with our lives is important because God is important.

    I think that most people live life like it is important. I don't think the difference between the Christian and the atheist/agnostic has to do with the importance of life. The difference is over why life is important.

    Since the time that sin entered the world man has always been allured by the idea that he can be his own judge rather than God being the judge. The lie that successfully worked on Eve, and the lie that continues to seduce people today is the lie that God's judgments are subjective, arbitrary, or even unknowable altogether. The end game of this way of thinking is that no absolute truth exists in the realm of religion because if God is not judge then everyone is their own judge deciding for themselves what is good or evil.

    What happened earlier in this thread is Tilly asserted that meaning, value, and essence are not things that are up to private/local jurisdiction. When Tilly asserted that there is in fact only 1 court that has jurisdiction on the concept of meaning, value, and significance he was accused of hubris because he ignored local jurisdiction.

    From my perspective this argument is much like accusing Tilly of hubris because he does not view ISIS as a legitimate authority. An illegitimate authority is no authority at all. To align oneself with an illegitimate authority in order to oppose legitimate authority is rebellion and treason.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  11. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    From Websters:
    at·tack
    verb\ə-ˈtak\
    : to act violently against (someone or something) : to try to hurt, injure, or destroy (something or someone)

    : to criticize (someone or something) in a very harsh and severe way

    : to begin to work on or deal with (something, such as a problem) in a determined and eager way

    I think it's funny that some people try to trump the English language.
  12. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I won't bust your bubble then.
  13. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Hubris.... Pretty sure I have been at this message board stuff long enough to figure all that out. You condescension makes it difficult to take you seriously.
  14. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    and can also be done without having any faith at all.
  15. AzCatFan
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    AzCatFan Well-Known Member

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    Let me first preface by saying that if a particular faith works for you and makes you a better person, that's great. But that doesn't mean everyone should be just like you, can be just like you, or will think your way is the best way. And just how I don't understand how anyone can be religious, I do find hubris in those who are religious who believe they understand the non-believer wholly and completely. I will attempt to explain, and again, please don't take any attacks personally, as I'm never going to tell any one what they are doing is wrong if it is working.

    First off, even if we are here by accident, that doesn't mean life has no meaning. Often, the best things are discovered by accident, like Sticky Notes. My own personal motivation for life stems from the fact that it's fleeting. There is an end to life, and as far as I know, you only get one chance at it. So, regardless of whether or not I make it to an afterlife, I'm going to attempt to live my life with meaning. And I find that meaning in my family, especially my wife and two children.

    Secondly, it's also false that an atheist's life has no lasting impact. Take a look at Steven Hawking, an atheist. Certainly his life has meaning and lasting impact. Maybe because there is a God that unbeknownst to Hawking, gives his life meaning and impact. But then one would question why people like Hawking and myself will probably never acknowledge God? And for that, our punishment is eternal damnation?

    Third, I personally wonder why any religious person can ridicule believers of any other religion. Ask any devout person of any faith to take a polygraph test and he/she would pass. Yet, all of them would presumably believe they are the only one who has it right, and all the others are wrong! In a situation like this, what are the odds any single person has it right? And what are the odds they all have it wrong. Personally, I believe the latter, which is sometimes referred to as the null position on God, or the "I believe in one less God than you" position.

    Fourth, referring specifically to evangelical Christianity and Hell, any God that would punish people in both life and death for being the wrong religion is a God I do not want to spend eternity with. My family is Jewish, and I had relatives who perished in the Holocaust. Fortunately, a good portion of my family escaped Europe, with some ending in Israel, others in England, and my immediate ancestors in the US. But we know for a fact that not all of my aunts and uncles escaped. Now I have to ask, what kind of God would allow humans to be punished for being Jewish, just to, if the evangelical Christians have it right regarding Hell, have these same people be burning in Hell for again being the wrong religion?

    When it comes right down to it, I find a Jesus' ability to turn water into wine on the same plane as a pantheon of Gods living on Mount Olympus. Mythology that makes a good story, but nothing divine about either. Yes, there was an historical Jesus, but his divine abilities are nothing but fables turned into a religion in my opinion. And if the evangelical Christians have it right, given the choice, I'd rather spend eternity with Hawkings than with your deity. No offense but organized religion just isn't for me.
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  16. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Never said it couldn't. But if there is no God, it wont ultimately mean anything.

    I was responding to the reference to narcissism.
  17. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    You do realize most believers were once non-believers right? In fact believers are often the best at understanding BOTH sides of the coin. Every believer was at some point convinced.
    Again I said ULTIMATE meaning. I have stated time and again that there is temporal meaning.
    It is temporal, until the next big accident wipes human existence and memory into oblivion.

    I agree. Ridicule of other faiths, is not the true Christian approach, and I shake my head at those who do. I do however believe my faith is the faith, and I choose to share it from the perspective.

    I think you mean SOME evangelical Christians. See my notes already posted twice on the true Biblical definitions of Hell.







  18. ursidman
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    ursidman Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this completly. However, these can also be the actions of a non-believer in Christ. The two are not mutually exclusive over this ideal.
  19. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Never said it was. I was saying that one can not exhibit these traits and be narcissistic.
  20. persegator
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    What exactly do you mean by ultimate meaning? Someone to remember the human species after we are gone?

    What if there is a god, but he doesn't care about us? Say he set the universe in motion just to see what would happen. Stars are born, die, and are reborn. Rocks and metals and planets are formed from the ashes. Life appears and fades away like fireflies in the night. It happens in every corner of every galaxy in the entire universe. And after time has run its course, it simply ends. Just like it started, in darkness. God turns off the lights and attends to his next eternal project, never giving a second thought to the singular firefly that was life on our planet.

    Is that meaning?

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