GOP mayor compares atheists to Nazis and the KKK

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by fastsix, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. fastsix
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    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    If I pretend to believe in God long enough that I forget I'm pretending does that mean God now exists, or that I've simply forgot I was pretending? For instance if from this moment forward you devote your life to becoming a Hindu, and 50 years from now die believing Hinduism is the one true religion, will you still have to deal with the Christian God or not?
  2. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    So What, none of that bothers me in the least. I do not need a reason to exist, what matters is that I do. I live for what is going on now, what matters now. Not for some eternal ever after.
  3. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    lol, OK

    Or you can just believe in yourself and get things done and live your life. Deal with it as it comes.
  4. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Right. Our purpose comes from God. Exactly.

    A person does not lack purpose based on not believing. The lack of purpose would come from there being no God.

    An athiest has a purpose...because there is a God, weather he credits God with that purpose or not.
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  5. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Fair enough, but that somewhat validates my point.
  6. channingcrowderhungry
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    channingcrowderhungry Well-Known Member

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    No I must of missed them. In this thread?
  7. gatorplank
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    gatorplank Well-Known Member

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    There is no hubris in that statement, Lacuna. In fact, I'd argue the person guilty of hubris is the postmodernist/existentialist who thinks that existence precedes essence. A person who thinks that they can create their own essence thinks more highly of themselves than the person who believes that God, by virtue of being God, defines the essence of his/her life. What Tilly was saying is a testament to the true God being the only one who is capable of giving life any true meaning. What you see as Tilly's hubris I see as an honest acknowledgement that man cannot create his/her own essence.

    And maybe you found Tilly's statement to be marked by hubris because you believe that you yourself create your own essence?
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  8. gator7_5
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    gator7_5 Well-Known Member

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    That's 100% truth brother..
  9. gatorplank
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    gatorplank Well-Known Member

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    I think "not fair" is the phrase you are looking for. Fairness would be that everybody goes to hell. The people who end up in heaven are not there because of their works. They are there because their sins were forgiven and separated from them as far as the east is from the west. The power of the blood of Jesus is that it can transform somebody who is dirty and filthy, like a pig, into a person who is as holy and perfect as Jesus himself was. Ghandi was a sinner. He does not the pass the test of being as holy and perfect as Jesus himself was.

    It is interesting, though, that when God and man disagree on what a proper moral standard is that man should be judged by, from our perspective it is God that is the narcissist for disagreeing with us.
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  10. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Yes a couple pages back...I failed to link it, only the quote from the link (its actually a great bit of research posted on another message board.) I added the link at the end this time, though the blogger on the site is a bit off track, the defined hell is accurate.

    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  11. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    When you go out of your way to criticize someone else what would you call it? Thanks for the grammar lesson; I took a little poetic license because evangelical atheist was a fun juxtaposition, your correction fit in beautifully with the pseudo-intellectual piece.
  12. gatorplank
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    gatorplank Well-Known Member

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    What he is saying is not subjective. It is in fact objective. When you say that man has the right to define his/her essence, then you are in fact siding with the serpent who said that man should be able to decide for himself/herself what is good and what is evil.
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  13. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    Do tell?

    Its awful to state, that if there is no God, and our universe will someday cease to exist, that ultimately nothing we do matters?

    That is Awful?

    Again, read what I wrote, not River's lazy interpretation.

    I believe what an atheist does is important and has lasting value.,,,because there is a God.
    My point is that a true atheist really does not believe that he is ultimately making a difference. How can he? We are just here by mistake, and eventually nothing human will exist.

    I have used the word TEMPORAL many times here. In a godless world, we can make nothing more than a temporal difference.
  14. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    So I believe that I am fully in need of God's redemptive grace, and I am nothing without God, yet an atheist often considers himself enlightened and to strong to need the crutch of a God, and I smack of hubris?

    You know the Christian faith enough to know the amount of humility that true Christianity requires.

    Necessary for what exactly?

    No. My point is that an atheist believes it. I do not, because I believe an atheist is designed by a loving creator for an eternal purpose.

    Like for instance, when one declares that I smack of hubris? :cool:
    .

    But does this really describe the atheist? I'd say that is more the tune of the agnostic.

    An atheist truly believes in nothing theistic. He does not reject JUST an orthodox concept of God. He rejects ANY concept of ANY diety.

    athe·ism:
    a : a disbelief in the existence of deityb : the doctrine that there is no deity
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism
  15. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    As to whether or not there was hubris in the statement we will continue to disagree.

    You've introduced another term into the discussion with your inclusion of "essence." Perhaps you could share with readers of this thread what you mean exactly with your use of that word. Thanks.

    Do I believe I create my own essence? In my own understanding of the word as it might apply to my life - my response to your question is - no.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  16. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    What would I call it? It depends on the circumstances that brought about the criticism. On a forum like this I would say it's standard operating procedure that falls within the protocols of this type of message board. What we write, what we post - and project in our posts - is fair game to be analyzed and criticized. It's the nature of this particular board. If a participant doesn't like or can't tolerate the comments and criticisms of what he posts, if the kitchen is Too Hot - perhaps that person shouldn't be contributing.

    In my response to your previous post I criticized the overuse or misuse of a label being applied to events or incidents that some Christians apparently want to believe are attacks on their faith. Any thoughts or comments to share on what I criticized in my response to your post?
  17. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    This post is also, in fact, subjective. Your reference to the serpent - a symbol of evil in the Abrahamic religious traditions - is a strong indication of that fact. It establishes your perspective as subjective as it pertains to your belief system.
  18. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    I've respect for your faith and the way you usually express and share it on this board. I think a post I made earlier on this same thread was a testament of a sort to that fact. I don't think of you as a prideful individual. The post under scrutiny, however, does smack of a bit of a hubristic attitude that is outside your usual character. Evidence for that, I think, can be found in a couple of places in that post. Those would be your declaration that atheists "live a life that holds no lasting meaning and is baseless," and your referral of people "who believe in NOTHING."

    It is impossible for you to know whether or not what you wrote, and evidently believe, is in fact true. In expressing what amounts to a derisive opinion, you denigrate something of which you know nothing as you have no personal knowledge of the experiences and innermost thoughts or inclinations of another.

    For one person to have any credible insight into the heart of another it is necessary to have also had the same experiences and have the knowledge, motivations and intentions that would enable any sort of insightful understanding.

    Again, you wrote: "they want to live a life that holds no lasting meaning and is baseless"

    I asked you if you truly believed this or wanted to believe it. And again I repeat it is impossible for you to know this. To make such an assumption smacks of hubris.


    Perhaps so, Tilly. Reading these sorts of comments and criticisms is what one must expect, however, when one posts on a message board like this one.

    I agree with this observation to a point. There are probably almost as many ways an atheist will describe his atheism as there are atheists.

    I have spoken with a few who regard themselves as atheists because they disbelieve and reject the conventional, orthodox concepts of God and associated dogmas and doctrines promoted by religious agencies. Religion appalls them because of its documented abuses, hypocrisies, and what they view as impossible and absurd. They reason a god as powerful as religious traditions proclaim God to be would not allow such abuses. An agnostic will say he doesn't know or is undecided on what he believes.
  19. helix139
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    helix139 VIP Member

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    Nope, not at all. Paul writes in Romans 4 about Abraham and David having righteousness accounted to them because of their faith. Not faith in Jesus Christ by name, per se, but faith in the messiah that God had foretold was coming of their lines, and that messiah ended up being Jesus. Same with Moses, Noah, etc. None were righteous because of their works but had it accounted to them by their faith that their redeemer lived but was yet to come.
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  20. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't saying you were attacking anything; I was questioning why you thought that people should not use the word "attack". Are you serious or is this an attempt at deflection?

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