Good on the Koch Brothers

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by corpgator, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. corpgator

    corpgator Well-Known Member

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  2. fastsix

    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Reduce money spent for food stamps.
    Increase money for agricultural subsidies.

    Republicans refer to this as a spending cut.
  3. GatorRade

    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Definitely agreed. Market manipulation at it's finest. And I like your pluralization of Koch, though I might have went with Kochi.
  4. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    I'm against farm subsidies.
  5. jmoliver

    jmoliver Active Member

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    Meanwhile the USDA agrees to spend $ 38 million to purchase 300,000 tons of SUGAR.
  6. GatorRade

    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Jeez, don't remind me. :no:
  7. DaveFla

    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    Teach a man to fish vs. give a man a fish...
  8. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    When selected cronies in government have the power to purchase at will we have a possible problem of overspending on $h!t we don't need spend on.
  9. Gatoragman

    Gatoragman VIP Member

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    Take away Minumun wage and all the regulations US farmers have to follow that outside US farmers don't follow and you got a deal. Average farm worker in Mexico makes about $5/day, average US make $80/day. Level the playing field is what farm subsidies are trying to do
  10. jmoliver

    jmoliver Active Member

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    The US farmers had record crops and could not find buyers.
  11. 92gator

    92gator Well-Known Member

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    The agricultural industry produces--jobs, food, income tax revenues, nourishment, savings on nourishment, economic stability...

    I suppose one could make the argument that food stamps also produce. Problem is, what it produces, isn't exactly desirable, since it produces leaches, parasites, dependence...and more dummyrat voters. :grin:

    That's why the dummyrats like foodstamps...and the GOP does not.

    (why the dummyrats don't care for ag. subs, is anyone's guess--take those out, and...
    can you say..."inflation"?) :devil:

    Then again, maybe that answers the question--dummy rats seem awful fond of inflation...
  12. GatorRade

    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    The farm bill has absolutely nothing to do with inflation. The reason that "dummyrats", as you so eloquently call them, are against it (Really, it is opposed by those on all sides) is that this is essentially a corporate welfare program. This is a giveaway to wealthy landowners with really no economic justification at all. What is really strange is that there is anyone who is not a farmer that is for the subsidies.
  13. 92gator

    92gator Well-Known Member

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    ^^^FTR: I don't support them in a vacuum--I support them under the current circumstances, under which absent the subs, we would suffer great inflation.
  14. GatorRade

    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe this is accurate. The farm subsidies basically transfers wealth from the tax payer to the farmers and agriculture consumers. So while I do think that we would see a rise in nominal prices (we had the milk scare at the end of the year that threatened 6-8$ milk), the true cost of the agriculture would not change. The only change would be who is paying the cost. In this case, we pay for agriculture through the subsidy, even when environmental conditions result in poor yields. The nominal price increase resulting from termination of the subsidies would be offset by a decrease in taxes (which would undoubtedly actually manifest as a decrease in future debt, rather than a decrease in taxes).
  15. 92gator

    92gator Well-Known Member

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    ^^^right. And those corporations involved in farming would just stick around, and continue producing ag. product, only at monstrous losses, rather than for profits....they wouldn't go do something else, or the same thing, somewhere else...

    ...and the slack would of course be taken up by the indy farmers, since it's such a lucrative industry...

    ...and prices would remain perfectly stable at the gorcery stores.

    Of course. Silly me. Seems I had it all wrong.
  16. GatorRade

    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    In other words, you don't believe markets work. Perhaps you are confused as to why we have shoes without footwear subsidies? Perplexed at how at how we still have TVs without electronics subsidies? Amazed at how gun factories survive without mining subsidies? This is exactly how markets work. Supply and demand determine prices. Like I said, price controls only determine the nominal prices, not the true costs.

    Come on, 92, if you are going to disagree with concepts so fundamental to economic theory, you probably shouldn't be so condescending about it.
  17. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    That's because our government is busy buying too much from foreign farmers.
  18. 92gator

    92gator Well-Known Member

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    OK, your point is well taken--unfortunately however, it's kind of an all or nothing deal. Either the govm't is involved, or it's not. Take out the subs without removing the govm't imposed obstacles that made them necessary in the first place, and the markets would surely level itself out--supply would rise to meet demand, etc....

    But take away the subs, while we compete globally against other countries with not only significant subs, but far less regs, and you screw the am. Farmer--you leave the game rigged completely against 'him'.

    Again, I'm not pro (ag) subs in a vacuum; I just recognize not only their necessity, but their worth. From the govm't perspective, Ag. subs are an investment, not a 'hand-out'; though being a govm't program, are of course subject to abuse.

    ...but that doesn't make them evil--more like getting rid of them is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
  19. gatorman_07732

    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, make it on your own or don't make it at all
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  20. fastsix

    fastsix Well-Known Member

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    Give a man to fish vs. give a man a fishing boat

    FTFY

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