GMO and orange juice - left/environmentalist anti-science

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Row6, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    As if to balance the nonsense from the right on topics from evolution to AGW, left leaning activists - especially in Europe - have stymied sensible scientific solutions to food production problems. This article is about a serious viral threat to global orange production and the hope of genetically modified organisms in combatting it. Based in Florida, this story involves a company head working with scientists (some IFAS people, though a Texas A&M scientists is ahead right now on the applied research) to raise immune varieties. Of note for those who somehow have convinced themselves that scientists and their organizations are all radical environmentalists is the push back from the NAS against disinformation from that camp around the subject of GMO's.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/28/s...?hp&_r=0&gwh=31541214647A8D93F1022D940CAD7EBE
  2. DaveFla
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    DaveFla Well-Known Member

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    Leave it to Row to make something like this into a left/right issue.

    :rolleyes:
  3. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    You are probably correct that there are some anti-GMO righties. However, most find their home in Luddite tinged environmentalism.
  4. neisgator
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    neisgator Belligerent Gator

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    Great to see someone in their comfort zone of making **** up.
  5. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    I love made-up/imaginary arguments.
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  6. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    What exactly has Row "made up"? Do you disagree that the anti-GMO movement is decidedly anti-science and seems to consist nearly entirely of the far left? Because that's what I took to be the point of this post...
  7. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    He made-up a Right versus Left argument...
  8. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    :no:
  9. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    Ths is what I took from the OP as well.
  10. kygator
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    kygator Well-Known Member

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    When the first sentence of your post contains the words "nonsense from the right" you should probably expect some negative comments from conservatives. However, I can agree with general point of his post.
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  11. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    I am anti GMO for several reasons. When the food we eat is designed, to increase nutrition, flavor, or something to make it better for us, that would be one thing.

    But when it is designed to resist herbicides only so they can sell more herbicide, I prefer the healthier, tastier old version.

    Farmers have lost their farms to Monsanto as their seed is now patented, so the farmer can't do what they have done for centuries. Save seed from one crop, to plant the next season. Now you have to buy from them every year or end up in court.

    Meanwhile, organic fruits and veggies are seeing a huge increase in demand.
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  12. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm confused here too. We've long know that the US right is anti-science in some fields -evolutionary and developmental biology, science that reports high levels of pollution, etc.- and that the left is anti-science when it comes to things that seem "unnatural" -non-organic foods, vaccines, etc. (link)
  13. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    I expected it and perhaps should have been less combative by not leading with that point, no matter that I think it is intriguing. However, just as I am not tarred by association with what I consider totally wrong headed anti-science on this important issue by a sizable and much too influential number of those on the left, those on the right who don't reject mainstream science on some of the issues that many of their brethren do, need not feel slandered. Consider this a reach out and commiseration concerning the nuts on both sides.
  14. T3goalie
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    T3goalie VIP Member

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    Go to WalMart and see how genetically modified wheat and steroid produced beef is affecting the USA. More fat than a hog farm...

    William Davis M.D. wrote a book called "Wheat Belly". It is a must read.
  15. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    I think you may benefit from reading the linked article. The virus they are trying to overcome is "winning" and is predicted to pretty much wipe out commercial groves worldwide eventually. The development of an immune variety through GMO research will minimize pesticide use in this case.
  16. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I think that you are mixing up the concepts here. They are not designed to resist herbicides, they are designed to avoid the need for herbicides. The most widely used GMO crop is Bt corn, which actually has it's own herbicidal properties, reducing the need for herbicide use and increasing land productivity. (link)

    There really isn't any good science that says GMOs are less healthy either.

    Now you are making an economic argument. I think that you are you right that Monsanto prohibits reseeding their GMO stocks, but I also think that you are ignoring that farmers don't have to use Monsanto crops at all. They can absolutely keep doing the same thing they have for centuries if they like. It's just that centuries ago, food was extremely expensive. If they want the price reduction that comes with GMO products, they do have to follow the GMO company's rules, but they do get to sell cheaper food. The farmer has this choice. And many have chosen to stick with non-GMO corn. Ironically, many of these people have been the biggest beneficiaries of wide-spread GMO use.

  17. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    I think is overly simplistic to blame a nation wide epidemic of obesity on a single technological advance. The topic is a bit too complex for a true scientific answer here, but there exists evidence pointing to many, many causes (e.g. cheap food, technological advances leading to sedentary jobs and recreation, culture changes, qualitative shifts in diet away from veggies, etc.).
  18. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    like I have said GW has become their god
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  19. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    I'm not totally against science here, but I'm active in an Agent Orange support group and there's a lot of stuff on Monsanto in particular. Remember there's a lot of stuff that everyone "agrees" is good and no big deal and years and years later it comes out it affects the body somehow.

    Yes it's too simplistic to blame obesity on chemicals, but it's a factor. Think of what happens when you take steroids. Most people gain weight, get the "moon face", etc. Now in small doses it's helpful. In larger doses, problem.

    So now look at the milk, eggs, chicken (meat in general) and all the other foods that have just a "small" amount of steroids and other chemicals put in. Consume that every day and what happens? It builds up in the body. You know what happens when you take in steroids for too long? Adrenal gland starts going because the body sees all the steroids and thinks it no longer needs to produce any.

    Not all GMOs are created equal, though, and that's the key here. I think in this case this might be a good thing, but they're really going to need to track the crop, side effects, changes in chemical composition when exposed to heat (pasteurizing, correct?), which I'm sure they'll do. Also, if they used DNA that is naturally occurring versus lab manufactured, I think the later side effects/possible public discontent over it would be lessened. Also, oranges have been getting cross-blended for hundreds of years in a natural way, so it's not a stretch that they found some DNA from a different natural source to ward off the infection. That's been happening through history.

    Now what would be great is if they'd stop adding so much sugar and other stuff to it. Getting fresh OJ up here is impossible. Go to Wegmans and they sell these little 6-8 ounce bottles of fresh OJ (just OJ and water) and it's $7. Get Tropicana or some other label and what do you find? A ton of other chemicals in there with about 10% juice. Which is healthier? Okay, so which is cheaper? That ties into the cheap foods obesity thing.
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  20. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Just as AGW has become the other side's Allah.
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