fsu's last inbound pass

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by your_perfect_enemy, Nov 30, 2013.

  1. your_perfect_enemy
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    your_perfect_enemy Well-Known Member

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    What's the theory on not covering the guy inbounding the ball? I'm not going to pretend to know more about x's and o's than most people especially coach, but wouldn't having Yeguette right in his face make getting that pass in significantly more difficult?
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  2. GatoRella
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    GatoRella Premium Member

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    I think its because he can run the baseline and evade the defender. So the defender is more effective down court.
  3. Swampthing_33155
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    Swampthing_33155 Member

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    5 defending 4.
  4. GothamGator
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    GothamGator VIP Member VIP Member

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    Must be a Donovan/Pelphrey thing. They've gone that way before.
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  5. ovillegator
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    ovillegator VIP Member

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    Interesting point. Seems like, with only a second left, not only does the catch and shot have to be perfectly delivered, but so does the toss in -- a guy in the face can add quite a degree of difficulty to that.

    It did force the throw into the front court, so it did what Billy wanted. And got the result we wanted!
  6. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Exactly. Donovan said he would rather keep everything in front of them and force a long heave than risk something over the top close to the basket.
  7. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    Finney-Smith's missed free throw probably dictated that to an extent. If you're up two, that baseball pass into the front court can only tie the game, and you might be more inclined to risk putting someone on the ball to make the pass more difficult. Up only one, that pass can lose the game for you, and you're more interested in forcing them into a long-range heave.

    Of course, GatoRella makes a good point. When the in-bounder can run the baseline, it's pretty easy to negate the guy guarding him.
  8. Brewski
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    Brewski Well-Known Member

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    I'd take a half court prayer from the opposition every time.
  9. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, generally speaking you're going to be OK when you force the other guy to take a covered, fade-away half-court heave falling into press row.
  10. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    I didn't think of it that way, but it makes sense. The greater risk with a one-point deficit is a two-point shot, but with a two-point deficit it is clearly a three-point shot for the loss.
  11. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    It is always better to guard the inbounder. So what if he can move? The defender can too. There's much more effect by having a long player guarding the inbounder than having him somewhere else on the court.

    The biggest basketball loss in our nation's history came in the Olympics against Russia because they wouldn't let us guard the inbounder.

    Know what other last second buzzer beater happened with no one guarding the inbounder? Laettner vs Kentucky in the NCAA tournament.



    You ALWAYS guard the inbounder.
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  12. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Well, obviously you don't ALWAYS because many don't, as Donovan evidenced last night. And it worked. So...
  13. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    Always should then.
  14. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    In your opinion, sure. But can you not at least grant the reasons one might do otherwise?
  15. Jonas
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    Jonas Well-Known Member

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    Because there were a couple of times when a team came back where they didn't cover the inbounder. Of course, he is ignoring the times when some did cover the inbounder and still lost.
  16. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    I wonder what examples we can find where the inbounder was defended.
  17. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    It would be a nice study. I will try to find some examples. Passes that were short and the guy dribbled up the court don't count and miracle heaves like Parson's don't either since covered or uncovered that happens. I want to see effective long passes while covered.
  18. GatorLurker
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    GatorLurker Well-Known Member

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    If the defender has to hold his spot I would put a defender on him on the in bounds pass. Otherwise I would not. If you do then the other team could bring a second player behind the line (with an almost 100% chance of dragging his defender with him) to accept a pass behind the end line before passing down court. Now it is 3 on 3 with very confused defenders and all kinds of bad stuff can happen.
  19. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    I see people try the inbounder change, but never to any effect.

    I watched this video of 2012-13 college buzzer beaters. No point looking in the NBA since they get to inbound from half court after a timeout.

    Of note was Wis-PSU at :50, no one guards the inbounder and they do a quick pass and he dribbles right up court to hit the shot.

    1:15, same situation, no one guards the inbounder, he makes an easy pass and they dribble up court for the score.

    1:45 Marist-Iona, no one guarding, but it's a heave like Chandler's. Still, it might have been more difficult with people actually in the back court.

    2:14, Wisconsin again, this time against Michigan, no one guard the inbounds, take it up court and hits the half court shot.

    2:15, Ole Miss- Vandy, no one guard in the back court, the roll it up a little, then dribble it up and hit the game winner.

    2:40 Drexel-Hofstra, no one on the inbounder, although they did come trap the ball when it came in and he just got lucky.

    2:48 St. Mary's BYU, this was not out of a timeout but after another last second shot, so it's understandable that they didn't guard the inbounder, but he threw it in and they were able to dribble up.

    There were a few inbounds from the back court where they didn't show if they were guarding or not, but those had 5+ seconds, so they're not really part of our sample anyway.

    I'll keep looking, but that's 7 without the inbounder being guarded and 0 with. It seems to be that since you're trying to avoid fouling at all costs, allowing them to get the ball in bounds easier gives them the ability to get a head of steam and go straight up court and shoot. In 6 of the 7 they didn't even guard the back court at all, just like us last night, meaning the guy can get the ball already heading toward the basket and score it.

    If you guard the back court, it makes it a lot tougher to be facing the basket when you get the ball.

  20. corpgator
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    corpgator Well-Known Member

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    Here's 2011 with copious replays.

    :30, first find of a guy guarding the inbounder. What's notable though, is that no one is front so it's an easy pass once he breaks free.

    :45 Inbounder is guarded, Long heave and turn around like Laettner, again not being fronted.

    1:47 Inbounder not guarded. It's hard to tell at first, but all 5 defenders are deep in the front court so he's easily able to take a half court pass, dribble once and nail it.

    2:05 Inbounder guarded, pass stolen and they hit the game winner.

    2:20 Inbounder guarded, gets the pass and is able to dribble up and hit the shot.

    So that's 8 unguard and 3 guarded. 1 guarded that turned into a game winner the other way.

    The trend I see in all of them is letting the guy get the ball already turned and dribbling to the basket. I think the key is to guard the inbounder, front on those in the front court and not let the guy get the ball dribbling toward the basket. What we did against FSU yesterday is the most common scenario I see for buzzer beaters.

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