For those pronouncing electric cars dead

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by oragator1, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Great story, thanks for the link. I love "forward-looking statements" about our possibleunknown amounts of rare-earth "resources". In two years, if we're lucky , we'll be getting something from those mines... hopefully not radioactive.
  2. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    No we don't have them... (rare-earth materials) needed for electric cars.

  3. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Nice qualification that was conveniently missing from your other post.

    Here's the bottom line. China has 23% of the world's proven rare earth elements but over 90% of the supply due to price fixing going back to the 1990s. Should costs for REE rise enough for other countries including the US and Australia (both have sizable deposits) to mine it profitability they will.
  4. HallGator
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    EVs are forward looking. That's the whole idea. You remind me of some guy from the early 1900s sitting on a horse watching a new-fangled horseless carriage go by saying over and over "They will never amount to anything."
  5. RealGatorFan
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    Keep in mind Tesla has to introduce cheaper models or it can't survive. One model will only go so far. Will I plunk down $120K for 88 MPH? Nope. Now $30K for a 45 MPH model then you are talking. BTW I did buy a few thousand in stock back in January:p Sell half of it next month.
  6. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Say what? We have the third most REEs behind China and the Russian block of countries. We just need to mine it.
  7. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Tesla has two models with a third (SUV) coming next followed by a more economical car. They have a very obvious and openly stated business plan that has been available to the general public since their roadster was just a concept.
  8. mdgator05
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    Right now, you can get one from 70K. A pretty well equipped one from about 80K. That is before the $7,500 tax credit. You would need to get the absolute top of the line model to get up to $120K.

    They are saying they will go cheaper sometime soon. Worth keeping an eye on if they can maintain quality as they go down in price, but if they can get it down to around 40-50K in about 5-7 years, with the type of quality ratings they are generating now, I will definitely be considering them next time I go to get a car.
  9. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Let me put it to you in simple terms... so you don't misunderstand me again. I like all technologies that move us into the future, including electric cars. My point is that we still depend on China and our own government subsidies to get there right here and now. However, this is great news that we're finally starting to mine these elements here in the U.S.. My only caution is with your link/post/site which, if you read it, you'd know that it might not yield the amounts of rare-earth elements we need for this industry, at the price we need, to complete with foreign minerals like those that come from China.

    All in all... I think it's great news that we're at least starting to understand the importance of these minerals that we have an abundance of right here in our own backyard.

    Now carry on with your insults about the 1900's about the horse and carriages.
  10. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing I said in the previous post changed, from what I'm saying now, before I got specific.

    Having rare-earth minerals and digging them up are two very different things. You do know that fact, right?

    All this means is that I am correct... that our electric car industry is still, today, reliant on the Chinese to support the materials needed to build these cars.
  11. bovinagator
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    bovinagator VIP Member

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    The ree's are mainly on western states lands that predominately fed owned. To be economically mined they have to be stripped and refined near the mine. How are the companies going to over come the certain environmental opposition. Are they going to get enough water? Long way to go before you will be able to open just one mine. So look to China for a long time for your ree's.
  12. HallGator
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    We "might not" do a lot of things. Now we can sit back and use that for a reason not to forge ahead or we can do as we have in the past and push forward in spite of the obstacles. That is where innovation comes into play and the more these things move into the main stream the more demand will be created. This in turn makes it more profitable for others to start researching and designing newer models.

    If you thought what I said was an insult then you truly have thin skin plus you must have forgotten how often you hurl around words like "commie" on the forum.
  13. demosthenes
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    demosthenes Well-Known Member

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    Considering we run an annual trade deficit with China to the tune of 10 billion dollars for auto parts, I find your post a little confusing when trying to draw a distinction between traditional gasoline powered vehicles and electric vehicles. Sure, we could buy only American parts for gasoline vehicles. The same could be said for electrics since we could mine REEs here in the US. The common theme is that we're taking the most economical approach.
  14. tideh8rGator
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    tideh8rGator Well-Known Member

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    These vehicles are not remotely affordable for most middle-class American families. They are niche, PC, "feel-good" toys for obsama's government and elitist class minions. THAT is why they are big in California. Not many single mothers driving those things around in very many places.

    For that reason ALONE they should not be subsidized by the US gov't. You want to charge $120K for an item, finance your OWN R&D technology!
  15. exiledgator
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    "What the world really needs is a great, affordable electric car. I'm not going to let anything go, no matter what people offer, until I complete that mission."

    - Elon Musk

    Considering his track record, it's a safe bet.

    Tesla is working on a sub $40K car as I type.
  16. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    In the mean time, should we start mining domestic REEs at a much higher cost and price than foreign REEs?

    What about flat panel TVs? Cell phones? Machines? Clothes? Furniture? Shoes?
  17. HallGator
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    Or do we sit on them but have the means to do so where we could start up mining fairly quickly? And would any companies be willing to do that for a chance at large profits in the future?
  18. Tasselhoff
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    Tasselhoff Well-Known Member

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    I know nothing about ree's, chinas role in world economics nor do I have the ability to see the future.

    What I do know is that I have followed Elon Musk's rise for several years now. THe guy is as close to Tony Stark as I have seen. If anyone is going to drag us into a better future...my money is on Musk.

    Sure Electric cars have a ways to go
    Yes, R and D is pricey
    But I think any government money spent on Musk is a good gamble. Far better then many of the failed "green" companies that got millions.
  19. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    That's supposing there are profits to be made now. Artificially priced foreign REEs make this unlikely.
  20. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Of course it is. If your opposition to Alternative A exists also in Alternative B, that's precisely what it is.

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