For All you Negative Nancys (Debbie Downers) or Nancy's Spewing

Discussion in 'Awesome Recruiting' started by NOLAGATOR, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. NOLAGATOR
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    So now you say Kelly who wanted no part of the SEC and used us to get the UCLA Job. He even went for less.

    And Campbell had never coached in the SEC, His buyout was huge, and he did not recruit FL.
    2003–2004Bowling Green (GA)
    2005–2006Mount Union (OC/OL)
    2007Bowling Green (OL)
    2008Bowling Green (RGC/OL)
    2009Toledo (RGC/OL)
    2010–2011Toledo (OC/OL)
    2011Toledo (interim HC)
    2012–2015Toledo
    2016–presentIowa State

    Taggert or Kiffin may have met the standard BUT do you really want Kiffin?

    Again you don't supply any of your own choices.
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  2. NOLAGATOR
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    NOLAGATOR GC Hall of Fame

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    What list?
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  3. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 GC Hall of Fame

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    You do realize there's more than one college coach with the last name "Kelly"...right? Pay attention.
  4. gatorev12
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    ND had been pretty terrible for several years with the disastrous hire of Weis ultimately unimpressive record of both Davie and Willingham. Kelly has 3 10 win seasons, 1 9 win season, and 3 8 win seasons (with one down year of 4-8, where they dealt with a lot of injuries). On balance, that's about what you'd expect a college football power program to put up. It's about the same or better than what USC, Michigan, LSU, et all have done. Definitely better than Florida, unfortunately. I tend to think ND fans are a bit unreasonable when they expect him to be Saban and win 10 games or more every year when the reality is that the school places too many restrictions on recruiting for them to be able to have that type of consistent success.

    Campbell's buyout doesn't appear to be anywhere near $10M before the contract extension.

    https://www.widerightnattylite.com/...pbells-contract-with-iowa-state-football-2016

    He was two years into a 6 year initial contract, and as the article above notes: if he left after 3 years, then he would "owe" Iowa State $4.8M. Even factoring in the extra year, that's a max of $6.8...and very likely less (those things always get renegotiated).

    Mullen coming so cheap probably is a bigger factor than most want to admit.
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  5. Distant Gator
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    I agree Matt Campbell would be a great candidate. I admire what he's done in a very difficult situation.
    As you can tell, I'm partial to leaders who do more with less.
    However, as others have mentioned, he had a huge buy out.
    2nd- Mullen beats him in terms of SEC experience and Florida experience.
    3rd- I cannot discount what Mullen brings to the table in terms of big school/ fishbowl experience.

    Again, looking at our last 4 hires, all have been overwhelmed with the job.
    Mullen will be the first with 1) SEC head coach experience AND 2) Florida experience.
    So hopefully that risk will be mitigated.

    Now Kelly would have the fishbowl experience so that's a big plus.
    I don't know that much more about him except from your post.
    I do remember how undisciplined his Cincinnati team was in the Sugar of 09. They were a trashy team. However, too many Gator teams have acted the same way.
    I don't want any more of that.
  6. enviroGator
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    And right there is what you just don't seem to get.

    At MSU, he wasn't supposed to win ANY games.

    But he took them from the doormat of the SEC to a respectable SEC team.

    You are complaining that his win/loss record against top 25 teams isn't great.

    Before his arrival their win/loss record against the bottom 25 wasn't that great.
  7. gatorev12
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    I get that part just fine. My complaint is that his record vs top 25 teams doesn't suggest he's an elite coach. If he were this amazing, can't-miss guy, he'd have far more upsets in his 9 years (ie: when superior coaching proves to be the difference in a close game) and would do better than .500 in-conference over 9 years (which would show he's a better than average coach).

    Basically: I think Mullen is a McElwain redux in that he'll beat the Kentuckys, Tennessees, and Missouris of the East without much issue; but won't beat LSU or georgia. If we hadn't gone through back to back coaching hire mistakes, I'd be far more willing to give him more of a shot...but I wanted someone elite or with the potential to be elite and just don't see it in Mullen.
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  8. OaktownGator
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    Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but Mullen did get MSU in the top five a few times and I think even number one at one point. He took on the West at its height of dominance and fielded very competitive teams, at a school where competitive teams are few and far between.

    I am not saying he will absolutely take us to the promised land, but I wouldn't underestimate what he did at MSU.
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  9. enviroGator
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    I would bet nearly every win he had in the first several seasons was an upset.
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  10. GameTime1
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    there was a lot of issues in those wins!
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  11. gatorev12
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    Once: the 2014 season. Which in retrospect, was more to do with the traditional powers of the West being somewhat down that year...as both LSU and Texas A&M ended that year unranked and Auburn finished #22.

    But thanks for a respectful post. I don't underestimate that he did a good job at MSU, I just think a lot of Gator fans are being a little too overly optimistic about the hire. Whether you support him or not, the jury's definitely out whether he's capable of rising to the next level or not.

    Personally, my worst fear is that Mullen will essentially be our version of Mark Richt: a perennial 9-3 type of coach that's never going to get you to the promised land, but does well enough to make it difficult to fire him. An upgrade to the Muschump or McElwain years, to be sure, but not going to meet the higher expectations in the end.
  12. GameTime1
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    I get gatorev12s argument. Mullen didn't beat any really really good teams. I just don' know if that is a defining trait/standard. Neither did Meyer that I remember (and I'm too lazy to scroll up, and Meyer only had 4 years)

    Let' just hope it's an overemphasized point.
  13. gatorev12
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    Too right, unfortunately! Neither Muschump nor McElwain were capable of fielding competent offenses while here...which made most of those games closer than any of us would have liked.
  14. GameTime1
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    This is b.s. to me though. We should be overly optimistic about everything regarding UF until proven otherwise. At least vocally/in public forums. What' the point of negativity?
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  15. gatorev12
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    Meyer didn't have any "signature" wins at Utah (a win vs a top 20 Oregon team was probably the best of the bunch), since his BCS win in 04 was against a "meh" Pittsburgh team. But he definitely had a national buzz as an offensive innovator in a way than Mullen didn't (and yes, I'm aware Mullen was his OC in those years; but Meyer has continued to put up good offenses even after the two parted ways, so one can't say that the system was solely due to Mullen).

    Of other really elite coaches, most have some type of upset of a top 10 team in their years at a lesser-heralded program (Saban, Spurrier) OR had accomplished it shortly after starting at their new job (examples: Meyer beating #5 Tenn in 05; Dabo Swinney beating #8 miami in 2009--his first year on the job; Stoops beating #13 Texas A&M in 1999--ok, just outside the top 10, but that was the best team on the schedule that year and it was Oklahoma's first bowl game in 5 years).

    I guess that's why it's hard for me to be overly optimistic here (and I'm usually a pretty optimistic guy on most other things! lol). Let's just hope that I'm wrong and Mullen is exactly the coach we all want for the University: one who wins most of their games (and puts up a lot of points doing so) and has us in the conversation for national titles every 2-3 years.
  16. paidinfull
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    Not sure who's right and who's wrong, but this site shows a buyout of 9.4 million for Campbell back in October. That was the number floating around during the hiring process too.

    http://footballscoop.com/news/anyone-coming-matt-campbell-better-prepared-break-bank/


    I don't have much else to say about the ND vs MSU debate. Those are two vastly different programs with two vastly different sets of expectations, resources, and prestige. Mullen brought MSU to heights they'd never seen before. He is, without a doubt, their best coach in history. Kelly has been, well, anything but "elite" at a place that definitely has been and is still much more capable of being elite.

    Elite coaches are few and far between. There is no guarantee that any coach will be successful here. While the Mullen hire was really anything but "exciting", he still seems like a good fit. He made a bad program better. He knows the sec. He knows recruiting in the south. He, more than just about any option out there, knows the environment and expectations here at the UofF. He watched those expectations nearly kill Meyer. I will admit that I was not super excited about the "safe hire", but it's grown on me, and I honestly have no idea who would have been a better, realistic hire. Outside of Dabo, Saban, and Meyer, there really is no "elite", proven, coach out there. Anyone else is a crap shoot just as much as the next guy.

    Might as well get behind the hire, at least for now. Of the three guys you liked, one wanted to go home, one was just simply going to cost too much (last time we paid a ridiculous buyout, it bit us in the ass), and one is just mediocre as hell ( I don't understand the Brian Kelly thing at all, nothing about him looks better to me than the guy we got).
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  17. gatorev12
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    I see it as more of being realistic than negative. There isn't much in his record to suggest he's an elite coach; and don't have any expectation that he will be.

    I've certainly found ways to praise him for good things he's done since he's got here (the recruiting class, working out with the team, embracing Gator clubs, bringing back in high-character guys from older teams and reaching out to former players, etc). To portray me as just looking for things to be negative about with Mullen is just not accurate.
  18. gatorev12
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    Mostly agree: 1) elite coaches are few and far in between and 2) of the game's current and most recent crop of elites, there's been varying ways of getting there...so tough to say what factors definitively "make" an elite coach. I think the upset wins vs the top 10 at a lesser-caliber school or within the first year or two of the hire at the more elite school tend to be the only common fiber I've seen; but it's still an inexact science.

    Kelly has a much better resume than Mullen. He won two natl championships at the DII level; took Central Michigan to the MAC Championship in his 3rd year (and won); had 3 10+ win seasons at Cincinatti (and got them to a top 5 ranking) and beat several top 25 teams there; then in his first year at ND, beat a top 15 team (Utah) and has 3 10+ win seasons there too. Whether or not he would leave is somewhat debatable (ND could afford to match us in any bidding war), but he's definitely the better coach of the two, has more experience, AND has won at ND in spite of the academic restrictions they place on his recruiting. He's rumored to be frustrated there and I think, like Fisher, he would have listened to an offer had one been presented to him.
  19. Notoriousgator
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    Don't forget Arizona State went big time when they hired a high school coach. Matt Corrals former coach, Antonio pierce. ASU was hard up for a coach.
  20. OaktownGator
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    I can understand that, and you may be right. I don't have any strong opinions on where CDM will top out.

    But let me ask you one question. How do you think Mac or Muschamp would have done at MSU the same years that Mullen led them?
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