"Flushing Money Down the Tea Party Toilet"

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by philnotfil, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    don't know, but maybe you can find it online.

    By the way, the conservative Daily Caller has also written about this:

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/13/t...-and-spending-millions-but-not-on-candidates/
  2. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    That is what pac's do!

    Which gets to the point that your graphs mean nothing...

    What do you think the point of mailing materials are for? Non Tea Party candidates in the case of Tea Party Pac's? Non dem candidates in the case of dem Pac's? Non pub candidates in the case of pub Pac's?

    I don't support Pac's for that reason. But using graphs about the Tea Party Pac's as if they are different than others gives me hope that we can actually get more Tea Party candidates in as the statists (pub and dem) are scared by the Tea Party and it's values (government live within its means and stop screwing our kids).
  3. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Let's take a look then:

    Tea Party PACs:

    Freedomworks:
    http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2012&cmte=C00499020

    Club for Growth:
    http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2012&cmte=C00487470

    Non-Tea Party Republican PAC:

    American Crossroads:
    http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2012&cmte=C00487363

    Democratic PACs:

    Independence USA PAC:
    http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2012&cmte=C00532705

    House Majority PAC:
    http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2012&cmte=C00495028

    Majority PAC:
    http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2012&cmte=C00484642

    As you can see, while the majority of the money in the Tea Party PACs is spent on fundraising and administrative expenses, the majority for both Crossroads and for the Democratic PACs are spent on media and strategy/research. So there does appear to be a pretty big difference between the Tea Party PACs and the PACs from other causes. That difference appears to be that most of your donation to a Tea Party PAC will go to either administrative expenses or raising additional money, the majority of which will go either to raising even more money or administrative expenses.
  4. JerseyGator01
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    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

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    As someone who has worked closely with a PAC, "strategy/research" often means simply giving your money to your consulting friends. All PACs are extremely inefficient per financial reports if you look closely enough, especially when compared to 501 (c) 3 charities which face much more scrutiny since they deal with more pressing problems. The only problem PACs solve is which fat white liberal lawyer goes to DC.
  5. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    The vast majority of the strategy/research category for all of the Democratic PACs and Crossroads went to polling and surveys. Crossroads was the worst of the bunch in that regard, but all of them seem to be spending the majority of their research budgets on market research, which in the realm of politics is polling.
  6. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Expensing and names mean nothing unless these PAC's use the same accountants and are allocating to categories the same way. Also it really is irrelevant to me as I think one is wasting their money whether regardless of what the PAC is spending it on...

    That said I did find it interesting that the two Tea Party PAC's you cited had the majority of their administrative expenses under "accountants, compliance and legal services"...

    irs and Lois Lerner anyone?
  7. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    You are really having to stretch here. Look at the underlying categories for media: broadcast ads, media production, and media consulting (which is much smaller). I don't care who your accountant is, there is no way to categorize the production of broadcast commercials or the purchasing of advertising air time as anything but those categories. And yes, there might be some movement on the margins based on how expenses are allocated. But these effects are not marginal. This strikes me as not wanting to face the truth here (which is totally your right and is frankly rather helpful to Democratic candidates so have at it). I mean seriously, are you trying to argue that Club for Growth is classifying purchasing TV ad time as "fundraising fees" or "fundraising consulting?" If so, they are committing even more fraud.

    That said, I did find it interesting that you tried to shoehorn Lois Lerner into this by ignoring the two facts that:
    1. All of these organizations already have tax exempt status.
    2. Accountant, compliance, and legal services are always the largest administrative expense for the Democratic PACs and Crossroads as well.
  8. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    Let's see what we have here:
    1. First source couldn't be trusted because it's liberal. So other sources are presented.
    2. When other sources say the same thing, it doesn't count because it doesn't compare Democratic PACs. So a comparison is presented.
    3. When the comparison shows that the Tea Party PACs do spend more on fundraising and administration than other PACs, the excuse is that it's probably just different accounting procedures.
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  9. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Why does a PAC have to do media and broadcasting to be effective?
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  10. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Do you think tax exempt status means they do not need an accountant and legal help to make sure they are eligible to remain tax exempt and preparation for filing with the FEC?

    Also found it interesting the Tea Party Pac's had one show no salaries as expenses and the other less than $40K. While the dems had one show no salaries, one show around $250K and another well over a million dollars in salaries and wages...

    I think we have no clue as to the real story which is why I would advise against giving to any of these PAC's. But again...why do PaC's have to spend money on things you think work to be effective?
  11. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Well generally, PACs are marketing organizations. So they have to handle some form of marketing. In a political sense, this could mean promotion or marketing research. Generally, this would mean broadcasting, sending out promotional mailers, running polls, providing resources to campaigns, or running events.
  12. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    No that is why all of them have expenses on that. You were the one who brought that up in a lame attempt to shoehorn Lerner's name into this, where it clearly didn't belong.

    That is the accounting that you mentioned earlier. Some organizations pay consulting fees for outside consultants while others pay those consultants "salaries."

    Well they should probably pay for some marketing. I am not sure anybody has ever won a campaign by paying more overhead, while I am quite sure people have won campaigns by spending more money on advertising and marketing research (polling).

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