Florida Stand Your Ground...

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ArtVandelay, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    No, we tell them if you see something, say something to the authorities. We don't want them to confront people because you don't know if the other person is carrying. You will be putting them in harm's way.
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  2. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Not true at all with the resident life example I gave, if nothing else. Unless the consensus theory of resident life/education has reversed itself in the last decade or so, still very routine to encourage undergrads to prevent tailgating and to challenge those who do to get an idea of whether they belong there.
  3. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    Last time I was in the dorms, you first tell the RA and if absent you call security.
  4. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    As the RA who would have been handing out the little cards and hanging the artfully decorated bulletin board banners and who was hanging "Gotcha Gator" cards on people's doors* (the "reward" one gets from having been able to walk onto a dorm floor unescorted and without using a key and finding an unlocked door -- all things that could have been prevented by proactive and vigilant residents challenging my presence there. I mean, they could run and tell someone instead, but if I get to an open door, I get to an open door), I disagree :)

    We are talking out of both sides of our collective mouths and other orifices if we want citizens to be vigilant and engaged at and around our schools or our airports and even within our neighborhoods, but also want to say that if they do take action that's otherwise totally legal, even constitutionally protected (i.e. "who are you? What are you doing here?"), that they have provided someone else a legal privilege to assault them by calling it provocation.
  5. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Zimmerman's failures:

    "Hey, what are you doing here ?"

    "I'm from the neighborhood watch, and am on the phone with the police. Do you live here ?"

    Even without those, TM had a responsibility to inquire who GZ was before sucker punching and pummeling him, with attitude.

    So, even failing to articulate those interrogatories, GZ neither invited nor instigated physical aggression, was still within his rights, and was . . . the victim.
  6. GatorEst1992
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    GatorEst1992 Member

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    Who's to say that if Zimmerman never left his car that trayvon wouldn't have confronted him in his car, its seems to me trayvon was goin to confront him regardless
  7. squigator
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    squigator Premium Member

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    I think terrible ted sums it up pretty good:

    http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerman-verdict-vindicates-citizen-patrols-self-defense/

    "The jury got it right, and non-racist America rejoices that there is still common sense, honesty and decency aware of identifying justice in this country. America also believes that the entire prosecutorial team should be ashamed of themselves and disbarred for ignoring the obvious and kowtowing to the pure racism that forced the politically correct lie that only black lives killed by non-blacks matter, which is why there are no headlines, no protests, no prosecutions and no Barak Obama or Eric Holder meddling in the nonstop black-on-black slaughter in their gun-free zone of Chicago."

    As an aside, the following story didn't receive any national press but it sure made headlines in Britain:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57406265/shawn-tyson-17-gets-life-for-killing-brits/

    "The two men were vacationing in Sarasota and spent an evening drinking when they got lost and walked into a housing project where Tyson lived. Details of their deaths have gripped the British news media. Tabloids there have written stories saying the men were "slaughtered" in a Florida "ghetto."

    Did Obama and Eric pursue a federal hate crimes case here? Hell, it appears that they didn't even offer the victim's families condolences:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-friends-criticise-Obama-lack-compassion.html

    "Friends of two British students murdered in Florida have criticized Barack Obama for his lack of compassion over the deaths. They said the President’s failure to respond to three letters sent to the White House was because there was no ‘political value’ and it was not worthy of a few minutes of his time."

    By their combined actions I'm beginning to wonder if Obama and Holder are racists. They have to know how important British tourism is to the Florida economy but they say nothing. And has the administration or the "black leadership" visited Jacksonville recently to address what's going on there:

    http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/black-mob-attack-on-elderly-white-halted/

    “Invariably what is described in the mainstream media as ‘youths’ are, as you know even see the video, are really gangs of young blacks acting as hooligans, rioters, or worse. The first part of accepting reality is to see it as it actually is.”

    Mike Johnson said the racial violence is more common than people know:

    “This is an epidemic!” Johnson said. “A black mob beating up white people happens several times a month…..and the mainstream media NEVER covers it!”

    I could go on and on and on and on with more examples. I believe TM's death can be attributed to the fear lower income and crime ridden communities like GZ's justifiably feel coupled with the violent tendencies TM learned growing up. And the one man in the best position to start a honest discussion on this issue, Obama, is not only absent but his minions in the justice department and media are attempting to hide "the problem" behind issues like SYG and white racism, which had absolutely nothing to do with TM's death. Let's stop wasting time and get on with the honest conversation that needs to take place. SYG, like a lack of education spending and the standard other false narratives, are just distractions.
  8. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    Well, he is a bit more secure in the car. Also I proposed that he follow him at a discrete distance.
  9. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    So you got this dialog from which side of the conflict?
  10. Lawdog88
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    What he should have said.

    Other questions ?
  11. GatorEst1992
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    Yea and if a bunch of white kids jumped a black guy it would be all over the news and people would be calling for their heads
  12. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Provocation does not justify a criminal act. But that does not mean that it isn't provocation.
  13. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    And a provocateur. His actions while legal were not prudent.
  14. Lawdog88
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    In a semantic, colloquial sense, but not in a legal sense.
  15. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Legally speaking, he was found not guilty. Morally speaking that does not mean that he doesn't share culpability for the outcome. If he had not been packing it is unlikely that anyone would have died or been seriously injured. If he had stayed in the car or gone home and let the cops handle it, we wouldn't have anything to talk about. An increased duty of prudence while armed would have made option B the most likely outcome by far.
  16. leogator
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    leogator Active Member

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    Yep, could not have said it better myself!
  17. GatorEst1992
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    I truly believe if he wasn't carrying that he would have most likely stayed in the car but that if he hadn't trayvon would have killed him in his statement he said that trayvon had pinched his nose and covered his mouth and told him he's going to die tonight, also no one was there to stop the incident all the scared people inside their homes didn't want to go outside or even look outside so no one would have stopped trayvon from beating him to death but then again it is all speculation, I will say I put partial blame on the residents of the community for not going outside or even looking out the window that way there would have been other witnesses besides zimmerman
  18. squigator
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    squigator Premium Member

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    But those young black men are just blowing off a little steam. Give them a break.
  19. GatorEst1992
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    But if I did it is be a racist and charged with a hate crime :roll eyes: all the progress we made the past 50 years is starting to be undone and race is going to be an issue again
  20. Lawdog88
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    By the way, I edited the original post prior to your response (trying to be clearer, not wordier), but I don't think it changes your response.

    I am not convinced about the moral culpability argument you make. It is kind of like, if the sun didn't come up, almost.

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