Florida Stand Your Ground...

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by ArtVandelay, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    When a thing is predictable, a prudent disposition takes account of it, rather than acting as though universal justice is at stake when he is asked to suffer the foibles of his fellow humans. If a man chooses to hold the power of life and death in his hands, that is what I require of him, morally speaking. Someone needed to be the adult in this scenario, but no one was. And I'm not OK with it just because Zimmerman broke no laws so far as we know.
  2. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Then you will find ample chorus in the justice = social engineering, and nothing else, crowd. They are signing up now.
  3. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    If a man chooses to hold the power of life and death in his hands, I require him to bear the vicissitudes of human stupidity (of which Martin's actions are an example) with equanimity and prudence before I assent to his actions. Otherwise he is no man, and thus has no moral standing to bear that power. And let's try to keep in mind that Martin was nominally a minor, while Zimmerman was the adult with the CCW.
  4. Lawdog88
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    Like the well-conceived battle plan that never survives the first round downrange, so too does the aspiration of bearing stupidity - with equanimity and prudence - die an immediate death with the first sucker-punch to the nose.
  5. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    The prudent man would not be standing there to receive it. He would take responsibility for the power at his disposal and guard it well, as well as accounting for potential responses by persons of unknown disposition but surmisable maturity.
  6. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    You will be selling that on the cafeteria of ideas line, in small doses, I perceive.
  7. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Yeah, because the attitude, maturity, and potential actions of someone walking around with a disgruntled teenage black hoodlum disposition is so impenetrable. No one could have imagined the risks before the fists flashed in the dark.

    Someone you suspect of crime by definition is a person you suspect of having the mentality and behavioral tendencies of a criminal. So clearly Zimmerman's should have considered the potential of a threat self evident.
  8. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Dude. You are not stereotyping the "hoodie" mentality, are you ? I mean, we have it on word from the hood, that hoodies are a good thing. Even if used to conceal who you really are - and what you are about - for whatever reason.
  9. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    The blanket excusing of the wannabe thug 'Imma get me some street cred/justice' mentality is just as bullshit as your knee jerk excusing of Citizen Fife.
  10. Lawdog88
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    Uh, you mistake me, apparently, for Citizen Fife's jury, which is where your issue with what you perceive as bullshit, is, apparently.

    But there is a swelling constituent of the ignorant and uninformed forming up right now, who do agree with one-half of your sentiments.
  11. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    No, the verdict was correct. As you well know finding someone not guilty has no direct relation to condoning their acts, which is what you appear to be engaged in here. Condoning and possibly even offering them up as exemplars to be imitated.
  12. Lawdog88
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    As explained earlier in one of these competing threads, with exceptions to the failed communications and taking the first punch, I would have essentially done the same thing.
  13. g8orbill
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  14. MastaG8r
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    Dropping in at post #194 to say...the Stand Your Ground law wasn't at issue in the Zimmerman case. Has that been established yet? I see LD is here so I'm guessing yes. lol
  15. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    To be fair it is in the jury instruction, but agreed that "no duty to retreat" is meaningless when the defense theory is that retreat was impossible to start with.
  16. MichiGator2002
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    Personally I am just tired of people who know better, up to and including the AG, blatantly lying and suggesting that the statute upon which Zimmerman actually relied is some exception, some backwater oddity, instead of what it is, which is the majority rule. Holder was lying on that subject today to the NAACP, and analysts have been for days. The only thing that might be novel is the immunity provision, I don't know, but it wasn't a part of the case so who gives a damn?

    It could be, though, that Holder is still going to harp on SYG because he knows it will probably defeat any tort claim against Zimmerman.

    None of it, though, excuses any inherently fraudulent, inherently malicious attempt to pursue a federal case here.
  17. gatornana
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  18. MichiGator2002
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    The defense's exact existing theory would have dealt with the duty to retreat had one been found, since it is a duty to make all reasonable efforts; if you are pinned to the sidewalk, you are at the figurative "wall" to which the common law duty referred.
  19. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    And I would suggest that those caveats do not yield the same essence.

    Zimmerman should not have been doing police work, and to the extent that he was, he was a fool.
  20. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    The trial result is a red herring in the public policy discussion, except as it sets precedents and influences expectations.

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