Florida Basketball is Perfect

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by GothamGator, May 15, 2014.

  1. GothamGator
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    GothamGator VIP Member

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    Perfect at educating its players, that is.

    The Gator Basketball team scored 1,000 points in the NCAA's recently released Academic Progress Rating (or APR). That score is as high as you can get. Only 17 of the more than 300 institutions received a perfect score.

    Congrats to the Gator team and the staff and coaches. It isn't easy to both reach the Final Four and pull off academic success, but the Gators did both. One more reason to be proud of our team and coaches.
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  2. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    It really is extraordinary. Donovan is essentially setting the bar right now for program stability: consistent success on the court, player development, player retention, and academic progress. There will be textbooks written about the guy 20 years from now.
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  3. MadduxFanII
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    MadduxFanII Well-Known Member

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    Patric Young: he can bend you into a pretzel...while explaining the anatomical realities of what he's doing.
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  4. ThePlayer
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    ThePlayer VIP Member

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    Amazing accomplishment for Billy's program.
    Yet another reason to be proud to graduate from the University of Florida.
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  5. ApexNC
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    ApexNC Well-Known Member

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    Consider that accomplishment in the context of 4 straight Elite Eights and coming off a Final Four. Amazing!
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  6. austingtr
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    austingtr VIP Member

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    We have the best running things. Our program is one we can all be super proud of.
    Go Gators!
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  7. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    While this is definitely something that is good to have a higher score on than a lower one, its not exactly the perfect measurement for education. If you check those other 16 schools that got perfect scores, you'll see that this is actually the opposite of a convenient view for me to take.
  8. Bradass
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    Bradass Well-Known Member

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    Didn't you just brag about your own school's perfect APR score last year? And now it's a poor metric?
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  9. PSGator66
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    PSGator66 Well-Known Member

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    Very impressive.
  10. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    No.

    Could be wrong, but I believe this is the first year UK received a perfect score (which I alluded to in my post).

    So, no. I've criticized this metric before (when UK's was good) and still am (now that it is even better).

    I'm not saying its worthless, although smart people like Jay Bilas do. I see the point of it and I'd much rather a team have a high one than a low one.

  11. gatordavisl
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    gatordavisl Well-Known Member

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    Who claimed it to be a perfect measure? What are your arguing anyway? Is the University of FL somehow not doing a good job, esp. in the current state of its program, of educating its basketball players? Again, what's your point?
  12. GothamGator
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    GothamGator VIP Member

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    It's a measure of progress toward a degree, but doesn't take into account a player's GPA or whether the program is rigorous.

    The fact that Florida also had several guys on the academic all-SEC team, including the academic player of the year tells me there is real depth behind the APR score.
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  13. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. Grades and the player's major are the most important IMO - really just as far as measuring the player's student-ness at least.

    The APR tracks what players are on course to graduate. This is important too and it protects against what Bobby Knight and others who are out of touch with the game today suggest when they assume many players either aren't going to class at all or aren't taking a full load of classes. When I say this isn't a great measure for academic success, I'm not saying it isn't a good measure for what it actually measures.

    My problem with it is that, hypothetically, a team full of 4.0 accounting or engineering majors that also has one guy who is slightly behind graduating pace (lets say he's in a tough major too but ended up having to drop a class because he, out of ambition, bit off more than he could chew)... this team, because of this one player, would finish with a lower APR score than a team full of mouth-breathers that all have a 2.0 in easy classes designed to keep athletes eligible.

    Granted that is an extreme and unlikely example, but the APR's design could actually discourage player ambition and rewards players for taking as few risks as possible. I think its strength is in exposing early entry players from doing the absolute minimum to stay eligible for their respective sport by emphasizing that they finish the school year on pace to graduate as if they planned on returning. I'm not a romantic when it comes to the "student-athlete" thing like some of you are, but it would be disheartening to know that many players quit attending class altogether once they'd become academically eligible for their final semester.
  14. themistocles
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    themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Always good to score well on any metric, even a very weak one, which almost every one that associates with Education is, without question.

    Actually REM, your argument is somewhat specious, for several reasons.

    Any metric that attempts to measure so-called Academic Progress, or any other such complex phenomenon, necessarily involves massive limitations, much like RPI. Regarding the term Rigor, once again, a term that is frequently bandied about, but which almost no one really has much of a clue about. If you are interested in a treatise I and a couple of colleagues wrote on this topic, when I came up with a Functional definition of Rigor for admissions purposes several years ago (these have remained powerful through the test of time - e.g. progress/graduation), see the following: http://eric.ed.gov/?q=micceri&id=ED510107.

    There are a ton of factors that relate to student academic progress, as Cliff Adleman so ably shows in his tome: "The Toolbox Revisited" - http://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/toolboxrevisit/toolbox.pdf.

    The two most important predictors of Academic Progress, are in fact: (1) the affluence of a student, and (2) the affluence of a university. Many institutions spend less that $4,000 per year on instructional support per student, while some, like Notre Dame, Emory, Vanderbilt, Duke, Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Chicago, Stanford, etc. spend between $35,000 and $95,000 per student. Both UF and Kentucky, being flagship institutions in their states, receive far more money than any of the other public institutions, and thus, have more resources to devote to helping students. The same, of course, is true of "Top" Athletic Programs, which recieve lots of support from donors, foundations and TV money to help tutor and guide their students.

    All such things make a huge difference in the so-called progress a student makes, no matter what their major. Of course, some disciplines, which have far more students than they need, make things as hard as possible for their students. A few of those include, but are not limited to: several engineering programs, pre-med, nursing, and social work,, among others. What is perhaps most interesting regarding progress is that Dance, is the most difficult program of all to make progress in. Music is also very difficult, largely because it requires not merely performance, but also, theory, language and mathematics. That is something that essentially no other discipline requires of its students.

    So, anyway, yes, the metric is weak, not so much for the reasons you mentioned, but more for the ones I mentioned that only begin to tap into the complexity of the situation. To develop a valid, reliable and functional method is quite simply beyond the scope of anyone the NCAA or any institutional athletics group deals with, if not beyond the scope of any but God/Allah/Osun/Ogun, etc. him/er-self.
  15. 08gatorbait
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    08gatorbait Well-Known Member

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    You mislead me in the title.....I was here to agree..then you had to go all academics.

    We aren't FSU, we know our players are great in the classroom :p.
  16. oldawgblue
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