Firing Muschamp at season's end would be a bad idea.

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by CitRain12, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we are debating two things - I've always seen your stance as the latter. My contention is that turnover margin is more a matter of coaching and players than of pure luck.
  2. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    I'm not throwing stones here I am asking...
    Do you feel that a high turn over margin is evidence that we are well coached?

    Not to stifle debate, however, I think everyone agrees that football is not a math problem. If it was we wouldn't need to play the games. The defense had not only the play makers but also a much higher level of energy and intensity that I believe helped elevate the entire team. If Matt doesn't make that strip in the LSU game I feel the outcome would have been different even if we made the stop. Arguments have been made that when TM replaced JD the offense had a different energy.
    Last week what I was most concerned about was the overall defeatist attitude of the team. I obviously was not on the sideline but several others observed the same thing.
    Do you feel that a wide disparity between offensive and defensive production creates an environment where we lack the intensity to "make our own luck". If so what measures do you take.
    It is my opinion that the level of disparity over the long term is having negative effects on the team, and if uncorrected will result in a slow downward spiral. Therefor we must field a better offense regardless of the quality of defense we field.
  3. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do, at least over the course of a season.

    I don't see much value in these types of hypotheticals, honestly.

    If Tim Tebow doesn't get a yard on third down we might lose to Tennessee. If Jarvis Moss is 1" shorter we lose to USC.

    In my opinion, that doesn't change the fact that the 2006 team was a good, well-coached football team.
  4. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 VIP Member

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    Or if Leak got hurt after his second TD pass versus the Vols...

    Presuming, of course, if the kick would have been good anyway.

    Yes. If Vandy would have hung on to beat us in 1996, we wouldn't have had a chance at a MNC. What if scenarios are ubiquitous...
  5. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any opinion on if we can rely on the turn over margin ostensibly created by superior coaching to defeat AL or an opinion on the effects of the disparity between offensive and defensive production?
  6. Swampmaster
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    Swampmaster New Member

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    Muschamp gets at least through 2014
  7. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Using the hypotheticals to provide context to the question posed... What is your opinion
  8. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Presently snippets of my question are being used to create a "straw man". Said "straw man" is being attacked instead of answering the question.
    Unlike some who use a purely Socratic method I have stated my opinion as well for debate.

    You have the floor...
  9. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    In an effort to keep the debate in the bounds created by the OP I believe we should keep examples to those that occurred during the current regime. Is it fair to state that examples given before 2011 are non sequitur?
  10. GreenWaveGator
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    The buck stops with Muschamp, but it would be premature to suggest that he should be fired at the end of the season.

    1. There are five games left. The Gators will be underdogs in three of those games (Georgia, SC, and FSU). Georgia game is winnable, SC & FSU not so much. I'll assume we'll beat Georgia Southern. We should beat Vandy, but that game could be considered a toss up. In my opinion, Muschamp has to beat Vandy, Georgia Southern, and 1 team out of Georgia/SC/FSU to take some of the heat off (he'll still be under the gun to make a huge improvement in 2014 to keep his job). If this team fails to become bowl eligible, then firing Muschamp should be at least on the table this offseason.

    2. Pease and Davis need to be fired first. We should at least give Joker a chance to call the plays, maybe starting with Ga Southern (assuming we lose to UGA and Vandy and Pease is dismissed afterwards).

    3. Always have to look at the impact firing Muschamp we'll have on our recruiting class. Despite having Will Grier, Dalvin Cook, and Ermon Lane, the overall class isn't great (ranked 19th by Rivals), yet we still remain in the lead for some highly rated prospects including a 5 star wide receiver and a 5 star corner
  11. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    The opponent doesn't really matter when it comes to philosophy. If you're asking if winning the turnover margin and playing stout defense can beat Alabama, my answer is an unequivocal "yes."

    We don't have any example of winning the turnover margin but losing the game since the start of the 2012 season. We lost 5:1 in turnovers to Miami, 1:0 to LSU, 3:2 to Missouri, 3:1 against Lousville and 6:3 against UGA.

    At full strength, winning the turnover margin, we have very good success.
  12. Bedlam
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    Bedlam Well-Known Member

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    LSU was the other way around. We lost with 0 turnovers.
  13. BastogneGator
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    I think the opponent absolutely matters especially after your point that superior coaching is responsible for turn over margin. This statement begs the question is our coaching staff superior to the Alabama coaching staff to such an extent that it creates the turn over margin necessary for victory. This becomes a central issue if the disparity between offense and defense still exist.

    Do we need stout defense to defeat AL, of course, but are we capable of fielding the necessary offense under the current regime while utilizing the current philosophy.
  14. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    The opponent matters to the actual game, not the philosophy. If a "system" can beat a team it can beat any team, given players who are capable of doing so.

    In our present case, we lack the players and depth we need to succeed. Last year that was not the case.
  15. LouisvilleGator
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    I think Muschamp is one helluva defensive coordinator and may some day yet be one helluva HBC. The problem is giving the HBC job at Florida to someone with zero experience as HBC anywhere. He's learning on the job. Now, I think Foley will retain him at least the rest of this season and next season. He has time to make me a believer again. Also, remember the Zooker never put together a run like we had last year. That being Muschamp's 2nd year spoke volumes to POTENTIAL. Obviously, being ranked in the bottom of offensive categories has to be fixed NOW.
  16. OaktownGator
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    Sure. When we fix the OL. Which may require fixing the OL coaching... IDK, but our execution in protections is embarrassing.
  17. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    To bridge the impasse and move on with our lives...
    I do not feel that we can maintain the current philosophy and the resulting disparity between offensive and defensive production and be effective long term.
    I am not a decision maker on the issue however I think Pease and Davis need to go sooner rather than later and CWM is on notice. I think he gets until 2014/15 and then a determination is made as to his future. If he cannot field an effective offense (top 50?) I think he needs to go.
    Mitigating factors to this timeline are based around the availability of a suitable replacement.
  18. Wormwood56
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    In fairness to Zooker, he never had a loaded team, either. He had to start 12, 13 and 13 starters during his tenure here. While I am by NO means endorsing his retention, had Zook, Fedora and Strong been here in 2005, Florida would have probably gone 10-2 in the regular season. The reason we went 9-3, IMO, was because of forcing the spread option offense down the player's throats.

    What Muschamp has to deal with this year, as well as 2007, and what Meyer had to deal with in 2007 and 2010, was exactly the same problems Zook had to contend with.

    Experienced talent.
  19. Jonas
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    Jonas Well-Known Member

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    To me, the question is: is the 11-2 season indicative of how Muschamp will do in coming years?

    There are a lot of coaches who have had awesome records one year, only to falter years later (like kiffen, chizik, shula at bama)
  20. LouisvilleGator
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    Zook was a bad coach, period. His stint at Illinois solidified this. I recall the excuses about the "cupboard being left bare" by SoS, but he simply lost games in ways only a bad coach could lose games.

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