Firing Muschamp at season's end would be a bad idea.

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by CitRain12, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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  2. GatorByte
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    Well the "last year" in the quote was referring to our 11-2 season. If "defense wins championships" was your retort to that (as you clearly say above), what am I conflating?
  3. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I did not say that our 11-2 season was proof that defense wins championships.

    I said "defense wins championships" is a pretty common axiom as a reply to the notion that a strong defense was not a traditional system for success.

    Do you follow yet?
  4. gatorntally
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    gatorntally New Member

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    here is how I see it...

    go 1-1 vs FSU/UGA then the seat is 'warm' for next year
    go 0-2 vs FSU/UGA then the seat is 'scorching' for next year
  5. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    This is probably right.

    I'd say it's warmer if we lose to UGA than FSU as FSU appears to be a much stronger team this year.
  6. GatorByte
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    Where in his posts does he offer the notion that having a strong defense is not a traditional system for success? I'm quite sure you are leaving some context out.
  7. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Here:

  8. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Against the sage advice of Tipp I feel compelled to reply (probably due to either immaturity or some other type of complex on my part...)

    After reviewing my posts I determined I never succinctly laid out my entire argument leaving it vulnerable to false dichotomies.

    I think many here at Swamp Gas feel that the current philosophy is to field a great defense and use limited assets (time, recruiting effort, coaches individual focus, coaches themselves) to create that defense a while providing significantly less resources or emphasis to the offense. The offensive strategy, in my estimation, is to shorten the game and force a low scoring contest, thus allowing a superior defense to win the day. Currently the imbalance between offense and defense is so great that many Gator fans feel the philosophy is flawed due recent results. I believe that last years record (11-2) was the result of a lopsided turn over margin and therefor unsustainable ( thereby not a proof of principle) utilizing the current philosophy.

    Never did I say that a great defense is unimportant. My stance is that a competent offense is also a necessity. If we are unable to overcome the deficiencies we currently have on offense changes to philosophy and strategy must be made.

    In measurable data points: I don't think a 100+ ranked offense combined with any level of defense is insufficient to consistently provide an acceptable win/loss ratio.

    I believe that CWM obviously wants a competent offense; what has yet to be seen is if this current coaching staff can field one. There is evidence to the contrary especially where Pease is concerned.
  9. GatorByte
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    The word "it" in his quote refers to multiple factors (not just having a strong defense). You already knew that though.
  10. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    You're all over the map, Byte, I'm not sure what to tell you.

    I never said that last year was proof that defense wins championships. But I guess you've given up on that point, which is a plus.
  11. GatorByte
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    Good post. I think most of us understood you clearly. There are too many contrarians here.
  12. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I appreciate your clarification.

    My only qualm is with the notion that "luck" alone dictated the success of the "philosophy" last year. You're quantifying that with turnovers, but it seems you attribute that to luck of the draw. I happen to believe it's a byproduct of good coaching and good players.

    Good coaching + good players means the offense turns the ball over less frequently.

    Good coaching + good players means the defense has more takeaways.

    And that's the system that I believe brought us 11 wins last year. The real question is what happens when part of that system breaks (in this year's case we lose a lot of good players).
  13. Crocodilian
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    I couldn't disagree more. If we beat FSU even if we lose to UGA and Vandy it would save our season.
  14. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    I agree that good team "make their own luck" to a certain extent. Relying on a timely blocked punt to defeat ULL is evidence of poor strategy made up for with superior athletes, in my opinion.

    Turn overs rely on the other team doing just that... turning the ball over. Over the long term I do not think you can rely on turn over margin to win in the SEC.
  15. GatorByte
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    Given up on what? You never stated it explicitly, but surely you had a reason to bring up the axiom. You even felt a need to clarify with "championship-caliber" when I called you on it. Now you moved to "I never said" it... you are the one out in the woods here.

    All you did here was take the guy out of context to argue with him for the sake of arguing.
  16. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    No, I really didn't. Even he said his "stance" owed clarifying.
  17. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Sure, and I think it's worth reiterating that "making their own luck" is a complex process that requires preparation as well as skill.

    I think this somewhat diminishes the value of coaching as it pertains to being in a position to make that block.

    This, too, is unfair. There are certainly turnovers that are simply egregious errors by an opposing player, but the vast bulk of them rely on the defense doing something right (stripping a ball, hiding in coverage, making the right jump).
  18. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    Not to start a fight, but purely for the sake of specificity...
    You were the only person I had to clarify it for and I did so only to prevent continued miss-quoting. To be fair it's a message board not a debate club so it's all in good fun.
  19. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure where I mis-quoted you, though.

    Probably not worth getting into it again, though, we're having a more productive discourse now anyway.
  20. BastogneGator
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    BastogneGator Well-Known Member

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    I think we are debating two separate topics. No one can possibly state that we did not go 11-2 last year. My argument is that we cannot apply the same philosophy and be effective in the long term.

    If turn over margin is due to superior coaching can we rely on it to defeat Alabama. In my estimation we cannot.

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