Firing Muschamp at season's end would be a bad idea.

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by CitRain12, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. rogocop
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    rogocop Active Member

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    Well....maybe with the CAPS LOCK, but I agree with your passion.
  2. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    Caps lock.
  3. Swampmaster
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    Swampmaster New Member

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    Muschamp needs to hire Alabama quality assistants & copy their s&c program
  4. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    He definitely needs somebody who can coach OL the way they do.
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  5. bgator85
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    bgator85 Premium Member

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    I don't think it is just reactionary people any more. At this point, it is not unreasonable for some to want to make a change. The product has been substandard and there have been some undeniably disturbing patterns. It is simply inexcusable at this point to have a third straight year of an offense amongst the bottom 20 teams in America.

    Some think Muschamp should come back and get one more chance at finding an offense, others think he has already been given a fair chance to produce one. I don't think either position is unreasonable right now, there are solid explanations for doing both.
  6. GatorLaw
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    GatorLaw Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but that's nonsense. Realistic UF fans (i.e. most UF fans) don't expect a NC every year or any particular year. We expect to have a program that can compete with the best teams in the SEC and occasionally get to Atlanta and win there every now and then. That doesn't seem like too much to ask. This is the University of Florida, not Kentucky or Mississppi State.

    This notion that UF fans are somehow unique in their expectations is demonstrably false. We are like fans of any sport anywhere. We like to see our team win, we get upset when they lose, and we complain a lot. Go to any other forum of any other major program that isn't doing all that well at the moment and you'll see the same kind of complaining there that you do here.

    Unrealistic, complaining fans didn't run SOS off. No coach who really wants to stay in his job is going to leave just because of the fans. SOS left mainly because of his desire to see how well his style of offense would work in the NFL. Money was probably a factor, boredom was probably a factor, but if the fans played any significant role SOS isn't as smart as I think he is.
  7. bgator85
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    bgator85 Premium Member

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    So this makes it ok? He has swung and missed twice now with Weis and Pease, you trust him to get it right a third time?

    BTW, USC and Texas are not better jobs than UF maybe equal. It is all a matter of opinion but anonymous coaches' polls have consistently named UF the top job.
  8. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 VIP Member

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    Your expectations are greater than mine, because:

    * When we have teams saddled with a dozen lost starters plus key injuries, we never won ten games in a season. To EXPECT an SEC East title with 9 wins or less is, frankly, delusional;

    * When other teams happen to be loaded when we are sucking wind, one has to expect that the other team is stronger and will have the better record. I cannot presume that simply because we are Da Mighty Gators, that teams will just fall over and let us win, regardless how loaded or empty we are.

    Since SEC divisional play began, I was happy to COMPETE for the SEC East position to win the SEC. Here is how we finished each year:

    Year-----------SEC Record----------SEC East Rank

    1992.........................6-2.........................T-1st (w/Georgia)
    1993.........................7-1............................1st
    1994.........................7-1............................1st
    1995.........................8-0............................1st
    1996.........................8-0............................1st

    1997.........................6-2.........................T-2d (w/Georgia; Tennessee Won)
    1998.........................7-1............................2d
    1999.........................6-2............................1st
    2000.........................7-1............................1st
    2001.........................6-2............................2d

    2002.........................6-2............................2d
    2003.........................6-2.........................T-1st (w/Georgia and Tennessee)
    2004.........................4-4............................3d
    2005.........................5-3............................2d

    2006.........................7-1............................1st
    2007.........................5-3............................3d
    2008.........................7-1............................1st
    2009.........................8-0............................1st

    2010.........................4-4............................2d
    2011.........................3-5............................3d
    2012.........................7-1............................2d
    2013.........................???

    We competed every year except for three years out of 21. Some years, two losss was good enough. Other years, 7-1 is not good enough.

    All we can ask to do is compete. We are still competing. But time is running out this year.
  9. DieAGator
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    DieAGator Well-Known Member

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    Would you EFFING morons stop starting threads like this please.
  10. gatorsjaxbch
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    gatorsjaxbch New Member

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    I must agree 100% with your observation!
  11. Swampmaster
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    Swampmaster New Member

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    What kinds of threads should we start?
  12. 1truegator
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    1truegator Premium Member Premium Member

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    Firing coaches is firing coaches. It comes with a cost even firing coaches totally incompetent. Players come and go and change their minds endlessly. I am not advocating firing anyone but I am saying there are NO outside considerations besides whether the program will have a chance to improve and maybe add better recruits later. They are all exclusive of each other and change on their own as much as from outside influences.
  13. msa3
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    msa3 Premium Member

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    Worm, I've seen you make this argument several times. It looks very good on the surface, but I think there's a problem with it.

    If a football team has 22 starters (and realistically, with kickers and special-teams players, the number is closer to 26) then you'd expect the majority of returning starters to be upperclassmen. So by math, you're going to lose six or seven to the fact they are seniors. If you've got great juniors, as we often do, then you might have another one or two leave early, as we usually do. So you're just by the nature of college you can expect to have to replace eight or nine every year before injuries, right? So going into the season, being down 11 starters doesn't seem so out of whack -- you pay for the great 11-2 season with one that doesn't have quite as many senior starters. But it shouldn't mean you fall off the cliff, because the next senior and junior classes should be ready to step up. If they've been coached the way they ought to be coached.

    The starter argument sets us up to expect to fail every year, because if the key is how many starters are returning, then there is always going to be a hole. We're always going to lose players, aren't we? That's why a good coach adapts to what he has rather than waits for what he wants, and that's been the flaw with Wm from day one, and that will be his epitaph here.
  14. msa3
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    msa3 Premium Member

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    Firing Muschamp is a bad idea only if you have reasons to believe things are going to get better. If you don't see progress, then waiting becomes the really bad idea.

    Hurting recruiting isn't a reason. Almost no one enters college ready to be a superstar; even the best of them needs to be coached up to one degree or another. If you can't coach -- if you don't have a working scheme, philosophy or coaching strategies -- then the quality of the recruits won't help you.

    So if you believe WM can make the most of the players he has, then keeping him makes sense. But if you're unsure, then keeping him really doesn't.
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  15. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    There are different kinds of threads?
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  16. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    Agreed.
  17. Wormwood56
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    Wormwood56 VIP Member

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    You're not the only one, but have at it.

    Not necessarily. Since 1996:

    Year----------# New Starters

    1996........................7
    1997........................9
    1998........................5
    1999......................12
    2000........................8
    2001........................5
    2002......................12
    2003......................13
    2004......................13
    2005........................6
    2006......................10
    2007......................13
    2008........................6
    2009........................4
    2010......................12
    2011......................12
    2012........................5

    Well, Spurrier and Meyer are alleged to be good coaches, and they struggled. Virtually all do.

    Well, being that your basic premise is that we lose at least 9 every year is flawed, perhaps you have to re-assess. I do appreciate the thoughtful analysis, however. The fact remain s that since 2000, fewer than 20% of AQ conference teams with a winning record are able to duplicate or improve their previous season when they lose 12+ starters. Ironically enough, Zook did it twice at Florida.
  18. ofmgator
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    ofmgator Well-Known Member

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    SOS and urban left us high and dry. WM is a good coach but he doesn't have a crytsal ball when it comes to predicting how is staff will perform.The decision to go to a smash mouth offense would be OK if we had the type of players we need to run that offense but I don't think we do, especially with all of the injuries. An Oline needs to mature and work together but injuries, new players (transfers) and play calling have shut the improvement process down. We need a great recruiting year and someone on the staff to break the log jam. Our players used to get better and better but this year everyone seems to have regressed. Why?
  19. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    I think the current groupthink theory has something to do with magic handcuffs or earmuffs or something, but I haven't really been paying attention ...
  20. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    The starter argument is based on the statistical reality of how teams play based on returning starters. Wormwood has shown the very clear correlation for Gator teams, but Phil Steele uses this too for all of CFB.

    I would take it further and say people should look at the returning plays, which includes contribution from players deeper in the rotation, but either way, it tells you how much experience you're bringing back.

    We returned a low number of starters and the team has been decimated by attrition/injuries on top of that.

    Driskel, Jones, Debose, Green, Dunker, Halapio playing with torn pec, Moore with knee issues, Thompson, Easley, Powell, Jacobs, and the frosh Rolin & Anzalone were both expected to see playing time. And Christie's inexplicable slide has really hurt our ST.

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