Federal Corporate Welfare is double Social Welfare

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by channingcrowderhungry, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. JerseyGator01
    Online

    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    15,129
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +591
    Then there's the corporate welfare that comes from a ridiculous judge's decision that favors one company over another and may not have any dollar amount attached. A previous employer of mine was forced to suddenly change its business because government felt its building was to big, even though a similar business was considered legal in the same building. Can't make this stuff up. Bribery rules!!!!!
  2. corpgator
    Offline

    corpgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    6,412
    Likes Received:
    164
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +756
    Roads are used by companies to move their goods. The national defense protects those companies. There's a multitude of other ways that these companies benefit, so they shouldn't be getting tax breaks to create jobs.
  3. philnotfil
    Offline

    philnotfil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    12,277
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +362
    From the article:
    Several links in that paragraph if you want to read the article and follow up on their sources.
  4. QGator2414
    Online

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,641
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Ratings Received:
    +527
    I agree the federal government should not be giving tax breaks (credits) to create jobs (while the payroll tax credit should never be offered it is a joke wrt creating a jobs as a one year small break for a long term liability is not going to incentivize a business to create jobs). Do you know what these breaks are as most of the tax incentives for jobs I hear of tend to be by local governments to get businesses to move to their community.
  5. chemgator
    Offline

    chemgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,568
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    That's a lot of socialist ignorance for three sentences. Both supply and demand are important to an economy. And part of corporate money goes into salaries of hard-working people, who create demand. When the gov't invests in corporations, it ideally invests in a functioning part of the economy and therefore encourages the economy to be more functional. When the gov't invests in someone who is not working, or holding out for a management job, as some of the unemployed are doing, it is investing in a non-functional part of the economy and is therefore encouraging the economy to be less functional. In effect, it is investing in laziness, and one should expect more laziness to result.

    What people also need to understand is that when a corporation makes value-added products that are sold overseas, it brings money into the country that fuels the economy. When Boeing sends 747-8 jumbo jets to Etihad Airways, we lose a relatively small amount of aluminum and plastics, and receive hundreds of millions of dollars. That's a good thing. Boeing and its employees pay taxes, their suppliers get paid, the employees go out to dinner and buy groceries with money that wasn't there before they sent the jets. When your social welfare recipient puts gas in his car, a percentage of the money leaves the country. That's a bad thing. The Saudis don't pay U.S. taxes on money once it enters their economy.

    Another thing to remember is that taxing one section of the populace so that another section can get its bills paid is horribly inefficient. There are a lot of people (government employees) in the middle, taking their cut, and providing little or no value. It's not fiscally responsible. There is also no way (and no incentive) to prevent people from selling their federal benefits and spending the cash on drugs, alcohol, gambling or prostitution. Then we have to spend more money as a society to locate, prosecute and incarcerate the criminals that result from this investment. Have you ever asked yourself why there wasn't a big drug problem before LBJ's Great Society? Why there was little prison over-crowding before LBJ's War on Poverty? How does investing in crimes help the economy? At what point will raving Socialists admit that Socialism is a failure?

    Now, which one is more important to the U.S. economy?
  6. philnotfil
    Offline

    philnotfil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    12,277
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +362
    Demand is what drives capitalism. If there is demand, supply will be created. It doesn't matter how much supply you create if there is no demand.
  7. chemgator
    Offline

    chemgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,568
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    Really? There is plenty of demand for a Fountain of Youth. In fact, the interest in the Fountain of Youth is said to be centuries old. Yet no company has supplied this. How can this be? You just said that if there is demand, then supply will be created. I suppose we need more government spending on this issue.

    I stand by my earlier remark that supply and demand are equally important.
  8. G8trGr8t
    Online

    G8trGr8t Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    14,198
    Likes Received:
    979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    SW Florida
    Ratings Received:
    +2,080
    so all we need to do is print enough money and give it away and then demand will skyrocket and the economy will zoom?
  9. philnotfil
    Offline

    philnotfil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    12,277
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +362
    There is in fact a great deal of money that gets spent on research to learn what lets humans live longer. If no one wanted to live forever that money would be spent on other things.
  10. philnotfil
    Offline

    philnotfil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    12,277
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +362
    Read a little more carefully.

    Giving money away to corporations will not do as much for the economy as giving money away to individuals who will spend it.

    Not giving money away to anybody would be preferable. Second-best would be, if we are giving money away, we should do it in a way that is more effective at boosting the economy.

    The point of this thread was that we are giving money away to people, and the people who are speaking out about it are making a bigger deal about the smaller portion of the money which is being applied more effectively to boost the economy. Why does the larger portion, which is more wasteful, get support from those same people, when the reason they give for speaking out about the smaller, more effective portion, is that it is wasteful?
  11. OklahomaGator
    Online

    OklahomaGator Moderator VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    34,650
    Likes Received:
    1,209
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    1001 Rockdale Blvd. Miami, OK. 74354
    Ratings Received:
    +2,157
    For the most part, corporations aren't given money. I know it happens in some cases, like Solyndra. What they do get is that they get to keep more of THEIR earnings instead of sending them in the form of taxes to the government.
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. chemgator
    Offline

    chemgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,568
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    One question is: what will they spend it on? The poor are far more likely to spend "free money" on drugs, alcohol, gambling, or other similar pursuits. Then what happens? You get an increase in crime, both in the neighborhood where the drugs are consumed and the neighborhood where they are produced, and some of the neighborhoods in between. Atlantic City? Hellhole. Neighborhood around low-income liquor store? Sh!thole. This causes the gov't to spend more money for: policing, prosecution, and incarceration. Foriegn aid to combat narco-terrorists. Face it--the democrats and their irresponsible War on Poverty created the drug problem and the poverty problem. They just don't understand human nature, and they don't understand money.

    If you make the poor earn their own income, they will be more careful how they spend it, and they will be too tired to party with drugs and alcohol on a regular basis. FDR had it right--provide jobs, make people work for what they get.

    "Spending" on corporations is a long-term investment in the economy. The democrats rail against the evils of venture capitalists, and yet they create the conditions (lack of support for corporations) that makes them fail.
  13. 108
    Online

    108 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    17,863
    Likes Received:
    316
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    NYC
    Ratings Received:
    +1,231
    this is a big mistaken assumption by conservatives:

    spending on the lower end helps the economy much more then the high end

    [​IMG]
  14. gatorpa
    Offline

    gatorpa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,018
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    East Coast of FL
    Ratings Received:
    +308
    Then lets put everybody on food stamps if it gives a 72% ROI! What a joke, it does help fuel the under ground economy I'll give it that.

    Just one example in little old Daytona Beach.....


    "The owners were all working separately and allowed undercover officers to use EBT cards almost as debit cards, by giving customers cash instead of using those cards for food, police said.
    According to police reports, Khaled M. Azzi, 34, arrested after an undercover SNAP EBT transaction at Nova Food Mart. Azzi sold $200,000 a year in unauthorized items in exchange for SNAP benefits.
    Lindo P. Jolly, 28, was arrested at the CITGO gas station after he allowed more than $700,000 a year in false EBT sales.
    Susan Robinson, 55, was arrested after the Crab Stop averaged at $42,000 a month in EBT sales, approximately at $1.1 million a year, according to police.
    Then, the owners would charge those customers a fee so they profited off the illegal sale. One of the owners bought EBT cards for 50-cents on the dollar, and then bought food items with the card, police said.
    They also illegally allowed purchases of alcohol and cigarettes to be bought on those cards.
    Police say they were not working together and were all separate scams. Suspects are being questioned by police Tuesday night and will soon be taken to jail."


    http://www.clickorlando.com/news/3-...scam/-/1637132/8495696/-/g0wqv0z/-/index.html
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. gatorpa
    Offline

    gatorpa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,018
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    East Coast of FL
    Ratings Received:
    +308
    The whole "corporate welfare" is another carefully crafted buzzword by the leftists in this country.

    If I keep more of the money I make it is NOT WELFARE.

    If the Gov gives you money that you did not earn, it IS WELFARE!

    That is black and white.
  16. JerseyGator01
    Online

    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    15,129
    Likes Received:
    135
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +591
    If there is no corporate welfare, than why is there so much lobbying of Congress and spending on elections? Didn't the spending in this past prez election double the previous one?

    CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!
  17. chemgator
    Offline

    chemgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,568
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    That's not what you said. You said if there was demand, then supply would magically appear. I gave you an example of demand, yet there is no supply. Your magic does not work. :no:
  18. Bushmaster
    Offline

    Bushmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,814
    Likes Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +661
    I did. I don't think you did. Apparently, whoever wrote the article thinks anytime federal money is spent, it is corporate welfare. I am sorry, I don't necessarily agree with that.

    I stated the only corporate welfare I see is in the farming industry. I don't have a problem with that. Farming is a high risk low reward profession so unless that equation can be evened out with federal subsidies, few would get in the profession. Food supply is one of those things you absolutely can not screw around with.

    The rest of those articles, and I clicked every link in your post, talk about government paying some company to do something. That isn't welfare. That is paying for a service or a product you receive. If the feds want a car maker to make an electric car, then the feds need to pay for it. That isn't welfare. If the feds want an oil company to develop cleaner alternative fuels, then the feds need to pay for it. That isn't welfare.
  19. chemgator
    Offline

    chemgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,568
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +1,041
    Ahh, yes, in addition to drugs, alcohol, gambling and prostitution, liberals have given us fraud on a massive scale. Thanks for reminding me.

    I'm assuming by the economy, you are referring to the black market economy (no taxes paid), and the criminal economy. Is investing in disabled people also worthy of a 70+% rate of return? Then, by all means, declare all Americans disabled. It will be a great cash crop, and will pay for itself in no time. We'll be the envy of the world.

    You liberals are hilarious.

Share This Page