End of Life Care

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by QGator2414, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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  2. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    I have seen both sides of this matter over the years. Over the years I have worked in hospitals in S Fla. Both with patients who prefer to go the Hospice route as well as those who want all measures take to extend their life. And I honor their desires by working as best I can in line with their wishes.

    My wife and I are also taking care of our parents who are elderly(both her parents and my mom. My dad passed away many years ago). So I understand well the emotional aspects of patients and their families in this area.

    Some suggestions.
    Try to have some discussions on the topic with your own family so each of you can let other family members know what each desires. Try not to be judgmental if a member of your family hhas desire for how their end of life should be managed. Remember it is the other family member's life not yours. And vice versa. Try to talk things thru to the point that family members will all honor each others wishes. Then see an attorney to draw up right of attorney contracts so that family can present the document to MD's/hospitals/etc if a family member gets critically ill.

    I have literally seen a patient's family members fighting at the bedside of a family member who is dying but still has their marbles. The family members arguing whether to allow DNR order or not. And I have seen families shattered by such arguments. What was truly sad to see was the facial expression of the dying woman as she saw her children bickering about her with neither child asking the dying woman for her wish on the matter. I waited til the children(who were adults) had left the room and asked if they saw their mother's face as they were arguing. I also asked them whether it occurred to them to ask their mother what the mother wanted as she lay dying.

    try to discuss such matters with your religious leader. Religions can provide support at such time to the dying as well as the family that is grieving. And families if they are all members of the same religion can find guidance so that they will feel at ease within their religion.

    IMO, if there is disagreement among family members as a family member is dying the best way(that I've witnessed over the years) is for the family members to ask the dying person what the dying person wants. To do other than that often leads to guilt, family strife, etc after the family member dies.

    I have worked as a grief counselor over the years for friends and neighbors.

    Something that often helps for those who believe in God.
    1. That each of us belongs to God
    2. That the gift from God is our relationships with God, ourself, and others(including family members)
    Bearing the above in mind tends to help people be less selfish in their actions during the grieving process. And progress thru the grieving process.
  3. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    in regard to 'futile care'

    became a nurse when DNR orders were still a new thing and many doctors still weren't talking with patients or patient families about DNR status may be appropriate.

    We had many 'futile care' cases throughout the hospital. Which made for futile code blues. One of the more memorable was an admission from a nursing home of an elderly person who was comatose and contractured(joints tend to bend closed and the tendons get tight from muscles not being used, effectively preventing the limbs from being moved) into the fetal position. Patient's heart stopped and because there was no DNR order for that patent we were ethically and legally required to do CPR and all life restoring techniques we had in our protocol. We found that you can not do chest compressions on a person locked into the fetal position. Shortly after we started doing compressions the ER MD and other members of hospital code team arrived. The doctor took one look at us trying to do compressions and he started laughing uncontrollably and called off the code.
  4. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Old we do not agree on a lot of political issues but Good Stuff.
  5. secgator
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    secgator Well-Known Member

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    Same here....makes one wonder if down deep inside he really IS a conservative....lol.

    At least on many things, I KNOW he must be. :)
  6. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'm relatively young on this but after round 1 of my brain tumor and with all the health issues, I have pretty much everything in place. Power of Attorney for legal matters, Health Care proxy including what measures can and can't be done, organ donor forms - I even have my burial wishes and the info my husband would need for the plot that was purchased for me when my grandfather died. I literally had my own funeral planned out by the time I was 33.

    Illness knows no age, and especially if you're a parent, plan early.
  7. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    Concur with oldgator on these matter
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  8. cocodrilo
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    cocodrilo Well-Known Member

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    My mom was hospitalized in May at the age of 95. When her condition looked hopeless, I made arrangements for hospice care. I always assumed that hospice care might be hard to get, due to demand or whatever, and was surprised when they came and solicited us for their services. They have a well-established and well-respected facility. She died before they could come pick her up, but I was impressed by what they offered (all covered by Medicare) and their caring attitude. I would definitely say that hospice is the way to go (pun intended).
  9. oldgator
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    oldgator Premium Member

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    "At least on many things, I KNOW he must be."

    I am a mix

    on some matters I am conservative--to the point of being attacked by liberals(and even moderates) on message boards
    on other mattes I am very liberal--and tend to get attacked by conservatives
    on many matters I tend to be moderate--and get attacked by ultras(both liberal and conservative)

    An area on which I am very conservative is in regard to lack of desire in America today to address drugs, etc seriously in regard to HS and college age people---especially athletes on scholarship. I am one of the few Gators on this board who believes US is too lax in cracking down on legal issues scholly athletes get entangled in. Most often I get some bleeding hearts(libs and many cons from this board) telling me to cool off because DUI, pot, brawls, etc are no big deal and that boys will be boys. My stance is---they are of adult age and should be held to account as adults. That we shouldn't be wasting schollies on delinquent 5* recruits when there are many 4* recruits of good character who are deprived of scholly by delinquents. That schollies--academic as well as athletic should nbot go to people who are active criminals. I believe that if a high school student has a rap sheet including drugs, brawling, etc that there should be at least 2 years between their offense and their receiving scholly.

    To claim that a football team can't compete against other programs by setting a bar in regards to character is a BS argument.
    Stanford--has extremely high standards academically, in terms of character, as well as athletically and they consistent fir extremely well against major div I football programs.
    Louisville--Charley Strong has set extremely strict and high standards regarding conduct of players---and they kicked our ass.


    sorry for the length of the rant. But the above has drawn ire from many posters here at GC on the sites other boards and a number of people who believe I want too high a standard for UF has included conservatives on this message board.

    My stance on economic, military, and social issues being a mix is a result of my life experiences. Just as it is for other posters.
  10. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    My grandfather passed away 2 years ago and I still get frustrated that he was not put in hospice for the last month of his life. I was only there on weekends but after a few weekends they needed to let him go home and manage the pain where he could either pass on with dignity or if a miracle happened move on...

    Instead he spent about another month or so miserable in a hospital seeing a doctor a couple times a day for a minute or so and fighting for the nursing staff to get attention. I would not set foot in Osceola Regional Medical Center for medical care unless it was the closest and necessary place to take me in order to stabilize my condition. From a lack of compassion that some of the staff showed to the inability to get my grandfather to hospice left a bad impression for the hospital...

    I know this is not something with a black and white answer but does anyone know the difference in average daily cost for Medicare paying for a patient in the hospital vs hospice? My guess is my grandfather was also dinged up daily for quite a bill to Medicare and I have wondered whether that played a role in the hospital not wanting to discharge him.

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