DOJ going after Zimmerman?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by QGator2414, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. gator996
    Offline

    gator996 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,963
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +15

    Does it shock you as much as it does me that at least 1 (if not 2 lawyers) don't understand what is required for jury decisions in a criminal matter?

    GZ had to prove nothing....


    The jury could have simply found that the State didn't provide enough evidence to make any determination of finding....automatic "Not Guilty"...makes no comment to the validity of GZ's version of events...



    I worry for our legal system.
  2. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    Whatever argument the state made, a finding of innocence does not corroborate even one detail of the defenses case except that there is reasonable doubt as to guilt, nor if one were a defense attorney would one hope that was the bar.
  3. wargunfan
    Offline

    wargunfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    4,567
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Inside your head.
    Ratings Received:
    +189
    Watch out LD. You're messin' with the innocent black child narrative.
  4. cjgator76
    Online

    cjgator76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    17,255
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +427
    OK thanks.
  5. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    I am baffled by this misconception of a fairly simple matter. Attorneys of all people should know and appreciate the low bar placed on evidence for a finding of "not guilty" and I would think be well practiced in the art of imagining "alternative scenarios". It's not that hard to come up with several for this case and within the known facts. It's one thing to wish for an outcome and be on a "team" and another to throw all principle aside in it's pursuit.
  6. MichiGator2002
    Offline

    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    16,175
    Likes Received:
    495
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,331
    I'm curious, what do you think the legal implication of a not guilty verdict in an insanity case is? Do you think the verdict doesn't mean that the defendant is considered to have suffered from a mental disease or defect? I do believe such disposition count as a "yes" to having been adjudicated mentally ill, for instance.

    Affirmative defenses... affirm something. A jury that accepts an affirmative defense is accepting the premise underlying it. It is not the same as an alibi defense or reasonable doubt defense.

    The defense here made the prima facie showing of self-defense, and the jury (aka the "finder of fact") weighed it against the state's proofs and picked between them, they didn't have a "none of the above" choice, at least not on manslaughter.
  7. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    I certainly wouldn't know anything about insanity cases, nor what the implications of whatever your point is about them. Please explain better and maybe I will. I do have a clear understanding of the difference between a defendant being found not guilty and being then considered innocent of charges and an endorsement of the case presented by his legal team including his story as to what happened. The bar is reasonable doubt, not prove an alternative to the prosecution's case.

    PS Gotta' go if you respond.
  8. g8orbill
    Offline

    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    71,247
    Likes Received:
    4,629
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Clermont, Fl
    Ratings Received:
    +9,748
    I am amazed tht people who are not attorneys think they know more about the law than someone who is a member of the Florida Bar with a law degree
  9. Gatorrick22
    Offline

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    33,148
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +4,623
    Lol... our resident weekend litigators.
  10. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    It's not that hard bill. If I told you that roofs held up walls you would rightly question my building knowledge. In this case I think some got carried away by their zeal for one side and can't now admit it.
  11. gator996
    Offline

    gator996 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,963
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +15

    Did GZ's counsel not have the option of immediately resting and not presenting a case?


    Did GZ's counsel not attempt that very action when it asked for a mistrial as soon as the state rested?
  12. MichiGator2002
    Offline

    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    16,175
    Likes Received:
    495
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,331
    Half true in my case, all the way true in a number of others who have been futilely trying to dispel all this TV-show quality legal expertise flying around. Doesn't work, either way.
  13. wargunfan
    Offline

    wargunfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    4,567
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Inside your head.
    Ratings Received:
    +189
    It's not about the law Bill. It's about not being able to accept the verdict and move on. The innocent black child could not possibly have been the cause of his own death. Therefore some "other" cause must be found that validates the murderous George Zimmerman narrative that they swallowed, hook, line and sinker.
  14. Gatorrick22
    Offline

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    33,148
    Likes Received:
    2,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +4,623
    What connects the wall to the roof?
  15. Row6
    Offline

    Row6 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    15,997
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +26
    I can accept the verdict - I think it was the right one given the way Florida law is written - but unfortunately it is not what you think it is.
  16. secgator
    Offline

    secgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Messages:
    10,642
    Likes Received:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +844
    Maybe that is the real definition of.....progressive. :grin:

    Thinking they are well versed in areas they actually have little if any clue.

    Perhaps we need a new topic based on medical practice, as it would be invaluable insight into which "progressives" in here are well versed in....say, neurosurgery or orthopedic surgery? Psychiatric evaluation on their part isn't even open for debate as they show daily examples of various afflictions, so we need to limit it to something more physical than mental. :grin:
  17. wargunfan
    Offline

    wargunfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    4,567
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Inside your head.
    Ratings Received:
    +189
    Originally Posted by Row6 View Post
    It's not that hard bill. If I told you that roofs held up walls you would rightly question my building knowledge. In this case I think some got carried away by their zeal for one side and can't now admit it.

    By the way, anybody heard from Chompalot? lol
  18. MichiGator2002
    Offline

    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    16,175
    Likes Received:
    495
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +2,331
    Sure. So what? What is it you think that actually means in your rich knowledge of the subject?

    They didn't move for a mistrial.



    I thought about leaving you hanging in confusion. They moved for judgment of acquittal, i.e. that the judge should decide that even if all evidence was interpreted in a light most favorable to the prosecution, that no reasonable jury could return a verdict of guilty. They renewed that motion at the end of the state's rebuttal. She denied it both times.

    What you may not realize is that this is so totally common and pro forma it's pretty much taught as part of "how to have a trial", it's as much to create the record and preserve the issue as much as anything else. And what you will actually have more than a few people tell you is that if Nelson were a disinterested judge and/or this case much less of a media obsession, the motion should have been granted. Instead, for the benefit of the public's peace of mind, it went to the jury. And if a jury had convicted, O'Mara would have turned around and moved for her to set the verdict aside, and if she hadn't granted it then, he'd have taken that issue (and a few others) to the DCA.
  19. Matthanuf06
    Offline

    Matthanuf06 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    10,825
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings Received:
    +17
    Let's do a thought experiment. Lets assume GZ did not have a gun and TM continued to beat him up. Would TM been charged? Of course he would have.

    Given that fact, and it is a fact. I'm not sure how anyone can truly think GZ's trial was anything more than a charade.

    You certainly have a right to protect yourself during an attack that would have brought charged against your attacker.
  20. MichaelJoeWilliamson
    Offline

    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    6,820
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +497
    I never asserted that. You are the only one asserting unsubstantiated theories. That is no surprise.

Share This Page