DOJ going after Zimmerman?

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by QGator2414, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    The reason Zimmerman didn't need to take the stand is because, very literally, the prosecution had made his case for him.
  2. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    It is not up to me to show that. It is up to you to show that.

    He did nothing of the kind
  3. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Of course, my insight into possible outcomes for TM - had he lived - were projections based on his attitude formation (no Virginia, he was not angelic, as the text messages and photographs reveal [the were not introduced as evidence, of course]), and from what independent witness saw him doing that night.

    So yes, based on my experience in representing approximately 2,000 young African Americans accused of felonies, I admit the clearly obvious as my opinion.

    And, uh, Good was lying ?

    Suh, you are nuts . . . if . . . you believe that.
  4. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    Who said anything about lying?


    You're a lawyer? Good. Go back and re-read what I posted.

    "The highlighted items & the last sentence are complete fabrications."

    Now, you're admitting its pure speculation but saying its factual because someone else said it as their testimony?

    Maybe that testimony should've been objected to...

    Unless Mr. Good is a expert fortune teller also....



    Innocent and Not proven guilty are 2 totally different things folks....

    :no:
  5. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Good testified as to FACTS he observed.

    I opined that TM had felony and prison in his future. That is opinion. Based on some pretty damn good predictive evidence.
  6. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Please explain how the evidence proves that TM attacked GZ first and without reasonable provocation.
  7. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    It doesn't, but the verdict does stand on the acceptance as fact that Zimmerman was acting reasonably when he fired.
  8. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Really?

    So why not look into a case that actually might be a violation?

    You have expressed rightfully so this is a complete waste of time and resources...
  9. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    You do realize Good testified to witnessing portions of the altercation....not all of it.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/29/u...ht-in-zimmerman-case.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Neighbor Describes Witnessing Confrontation in Florida Murder Case

    By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
    Published: June 28, 2013

    SANFORD, Fla. — A prosecution witness who saw portions of the altercation between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin on Feb, 26, 2012, took the stand on Friday, bolstering the defense’s contention that Mr. Zimmerman was on the ground being beaten by Mr. Martin when the fatal shot was fired.

    Using the term “ground and pound,” John Good, who lived at the housing complex where Mr. Martin was killed, testified that he walked out to his back porch and saw, about 20 to 30 feet away, someone in dark clothes “straddling” someone wearing white or red who was lying on the ground. (Mr. Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket that night.) The person on top, he said, was using “arm motions going down, not just once but multiple times.”

    Mr. Good said he asked, “What’s going on?”

    “No one answered,” he said. “At some point I said, ‘Cut it out’ and ‘I’m calling 911,’ when I thought it was getting really serious.”

    It sounded to him, he said, that the person on the bottom was crying out for help — a conclusion he said he reached using common sense and gauging the direction of the voice. But, Mr. Good added, he could not be “100 percent sure.”

    Mr. Zimmerman, 29, the coordinator for the neighborhood watch program at the housing complex, is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Mr. Martin, an unarmed black teenager. Mr. Zimmerman told the police that he shot Mr. Martin in self-defense after the 17-year-old pushed him to the ground, punched him and repeatedly slammed his head into concrete.

    The prosecution contends that Mr. Zimmerman pursued Mr. Martin and was the aggressor.

    Mr. Good’s testimony on Friday is different from the recollection of two other witnesses who have already testified. They said that they saw the person on the top stand up and walk away.

    To counter the discrepancy, the defense is likely to argue that by then Mr. Zimmerman had already shot Mr. Martin once in the chest and then flipped him onto his back, as he told the police. Mr. Zimmerman has told the police he then straddled Mr. Martin and held his arms down.

    Mr. Good and other witnesses, though, have told jurors that the body on the ground was lying face down.

    Taking great care to be precise, Mr. Good told jurors in Seminole County Court that he did not see actual punches or strikes during the altercation but saw repeated arm motions moving downward. He used the term “ground and pound” to describe what he saw because it reminded him of a mixed martial arts move, he said.



    And that last sentence was about TM's MMA fighting skill...



    Please explain how Mr. Good has any knowledge of TM's fighting skill or where it would lead him in life....
  10. cjgator76
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    cjgator76 Well-Known Member

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    Question re: the federal investigation of GZ. Over the weekend I heard several MSNBC talking heads say that the investigation was not concluded. As Rev. Al rhymed it, the investigation was suspended, not ended.

    Is this accurate, or did the feds consider their investigation complete at the time?
  11. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    Your post is more space . .. ... ...... than substance.

    Just go away.
  12. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Your statements which he objected to are not facts, and your representation of them as such was a fabrication. Absence of a perjury charge is not vindication of an opinion, or else we would have to accept absolutely eveything everyone on the stand said in this case as true.

    Other than that, I hope you do a better job of considering "alternative scenarios" with your many defendants than you have with this case.
  13. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    What's a legal fact now is that George Zimmerman acted reasonably when he fired. As this was presumptively based on Good's testimony, which the SAs tacitly conceded with their dummy act, that Martin was on top at the crucial moment, well, your mileage may vary.
  14. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    No, it doesn't. It rests on the reasonable possibility that he was acting reasonably. That is what the "reasonable doubt" principle is about. GZ didn't have to prove - nor did he - that his version was correct, only that it was a reasonable possibility.
  15. Lawdog88
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    Lawdog88 Well-Known Member

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    You - or your legal source - is the source of conjuring, speculation, and "what ifs", that were either disproven at trial, our could not be proved.

    But do carry on. And your little friend, '96 tears.
  16. gator996
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    gator996 New Member

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    The civil rights investigation was halted as to not interfere with the criminal prosecution that just concluded.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2013/0715/Will-George-Zimmerman-now-face-federal-charges?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+feeds%2Fcsm+%28Christian+Science+Monitor+|+All+Stories%29


    Will George Zimmerman now face federal charges?

    The Justice Department is reviewing the evidence to see if there is a basis for civil rights charges against George Zimmerman. Such a case would have to prove that Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin primarily due to race.

    Justice officials said Sunday they are reviewing the evidence in the Zimmerman trial as well as their own open investigation into the killing of Trayvon, which had been on hold while the state of Florida pursued its own case against neighborhood watch volunteer Zimmerman. It’s possible that Attorney General Eric Holder will shed some light on the government’s intentions on Tuesday, when he addresses the NAACP annual convention in Orlando, Fla.
  17. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    That's not true. By "reasonable doubt" the only thing we know is that the jury considered his explanation as reasonably possible and that there was no evidence to overturn it. It does not mean there weren't other possibilities.
  18. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    Please don't, lol.

    There is no conceptual space between guilt on the manslaughter charge and non-guilt on the justification defense. A killing that isn't unlawful is, necessarily, lawful. They argued manslaughter by act, all parties stipulated it wasn't a case of the gun "going off", nor did the state argue that some other negligence or recklessness caused the encounter.
  19. MastaG8r
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    MastaG8r New Member

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    The FBI, which falls under the Justice Department, opened an investigation into whether Zimmerman might be guilty of any civil rights violations. They sent agents to interview the lead investigating officer in his case, Det. Chris Serino. Here is their report.

    I defy anyone to read that report then come here and state the basis for filing federal civil rights charges against George Zimmerman. Bring it.
  20. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    No, there are other interpretations of the known facts which were not disproven at trial, nor was it the defenses responsibility to do so. Especially in a case with limited evidence they only had to have a reasonable explanation which created reasonable doubt about the prosecution's theories.

    Why am I telling you this?

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