Dream, your rhetoric is getting old. I don't know what has happened to you, but this "it isn't your fault" and "you can't maintain it, so don't do it in the first place" really gets on the verge of pissing me off. So much I really consider not even coming around anymore. Anyway, some of your arguments that you litter every single thread with seem QUITE wrong. Anyway. Agreed: BMI is a horrible measure for an individual in regard to health, at that instant in time. SIMPLY having high BMI does not instantly make one unhealthy, just as eating a McDonalds double quarter pounder with cheese and a super-sized fry doesn't INSTANTLY make one fat. Anymore, that is about where it stops. ------------- Obesity is hereditary? WTF is that? Eating a 3rd bag of ho-ho's after 5000 calories of other food is GENETIC?! You are kidding right? Eating more than is needed is LEARNED. IMO, that is the single GREATEST reason why fat kids have fat parents. It has little to do with what genetic markers they have and a whole lot to do with how the parents have taught the kids to eat (fast, and a lot), when they have taught their kids to eat (often), and what they have taught their kids to eat (crap). A fat kid with TWO fat parents (and potentially 4 fat grandparents)... that kid is taught to be fat. Nothing more, nothing less. I will buy the idea that there is nothing the kid can really do about it, given the circumstances, but that doesn't make it genetic. Do I neglect that there are cases where obesity IS actually passed from parent to child? NO. There are cases where that is true, but from what I understand, these are NOT normal. These hereditary conditions are rare. Start talking probabilistics (sp?), what are the chances that two people with the same gene anomaly have a kid together and pass that anomaly along? That probability is ESPECIALLY worse if the anomaly is a RECESSIVE gene. Is this the case for 33% of the kids out there? Beyond that, when I was at my heaviest (BMI 33.1, Body fat percentage north of 40 more than likely... obese by all means)... I was by far the fattest of any known relative. Well more than my parents, and grandparents. Who then did I inherit my fatness from? I want somebody besides myself to blame! ------------- Inability to maintain weight loss. I take this one personally. Reading this comment aggravates me the most, as I have gone through major weight loss, and maintained it. Also plan on it. Why is it so irritating? For me, I was fat due to ignorance. I liked eating crappy food and a lot of it. I would not go as far as saying that I flat out didn't know about calorie content and whatnot, but I was just not thinking about it. I CHOSE to be ignorant about it. (again, personal choice). Know what else I chose to do? I chose to spend a lot of time in front of the computer and the TV. I chose to stay inside and sit on the couch. I chose to drive a short distance instead of walking. I chose the easy route in a majority of the things I wanted to do. WHY? So I can get them done faster and I can get back to sitting on the couch watching TV or go spend hours sitting at the computer playing videogames (MMORPGs and FPS). Since then, I have made a choice to be more aware about things. Does it mean that things are easy? No. A lot of times they are not. However, those hard decisions lead to make other things that I like to do easier. Like playing and being active with my kid. To say that I WILL not maintain this means that I must first make the DECISION to CHOOSE to eat more and be less active. MENTAL DECISION FIRST. Do I always maintain the lightest I have ever been in my adult life? Nope. However, that is because I CHOOSE to eat more and/or be less active than what is required to maintain that... for me. It is by choice, and therefore technically under my control. -------------- We are living longer than ever inspite of being fatter than ever. You ALWAYS make this comment as if being fatter and/or diseased EQUATES to living longer without consideration of medical advancements OR the FACT that if you actively have a condition, you are going to the doctor more. Here are some stats over the last 50 years. Data after the year: - Life Expectancy - Physicians per 1000 people - Health expenditure ($) per capita 2010: 78.2 - 2.42 - $8,360 2005: 77.3 - 2.67 - $6,250 2000: 76.6 - 2.58 - $4,700 1995: 75.6 - 2.00 - $3,700 1990: 75.2 - 1.80 1985: 74.5 - 1.70 1980: 73.6 - 1.50 1970: 70.8 - 1.20 1960: 69.7 - 1.10 Yes, life expectancy is on the rise... but why are there more doctors? Why are we spending more and more at the doctors every year? Is it because in the 60's, doctors were WAY overworked and there was a huge NEED for more doctors? Bull crap. IMO, it is because we are getting fatter and more unhealthy, thus more doctors are needed to prescribe us things. Those stats don't even account for the advancements in medical technology. I.E. surgeries to fix things are less invasive, thus less risky. We are also getting better at major fixes, like transplants. IMO, as technology gets better, people dying from minor things goes down to nearly nothing. That means, it is major things that ends up killing us. Of the two options below, which do you think would produce the longest number of years lived with a major problem that can't be avoided. Lets say... breast cancer in a woman. The onset of this cancer occurs at age 50. 1. Woman is healthy and in normal weight and never has any physical signs of ailment, so never goes to the doctor. Ends up going to see a doctor at age 57 because she hasn't felt good for about 5 or 6 days (unrelated to the cancer). Doctor decides to do some blood tests, notices something severely elevated. Further investigation reveals advanced stages of breast cancer. 2. Woman is unhealthy and obese. Goes to doctor all the time for knee and ankle pain (100% weight related), and high blood pressure (quite possibly due to the constant pain). Due to pain management program and blood pressure meds, doctor runs blood tests 2x per year. Also, the doctor pesters the crap out of the woman about annual breast examination. Woman doesn't want to, but grows tired of hearing about it from the doctor every 3-6 months. 6 months after her 50th birthday, doctor notices an anomaly in a test result. Further examination reveals the breast cancer, in the early stage. Option 2 right? I most certainly would hope so. But why? Is it BECAUSE option 2 was fat and unhealthy in general? Or is it because option 2 is actively going to the doctor and detected the problem early? Lets toss in option 3. Healthy normal weight woman goes to the doctor 1x per year for a checkup. Gets full out bloodwork and examination. Examination 1 month past 50th birthday doesn't reveal anything. Examination 1 month past 51st birthday reveals the breast cancer, still in the early stage. Would you still chose option 2? That said, I would bet the ratio... $ spent by "normal weight" people at the doctor : $ spent by overweight and obese people at the doctor is VERY low. Lets guess maybe 0.1:1 (that may be high). Normal weight people with nothing to complain about probably don't go to the doctor. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Right? Do you take your car into the mechanic if it is running perfectly? I don't. Change the above ratio in favor of the healthy... lets say 0.3:1,... I would now bet that "normal weight" people will outlive the overweight by a longshot. Reason, I feel that the biggest problem that "normal weight" people face is finding problems too late. Early detection of manageable problems would go through the roof, thus one would live longer... at a normal weight. ------------- /sigh That is enough. For now, possibly forever. Who knows.