Diabetes Weight-Loss Study Ends Early With Surprising Result

Discussion in 'Gator Country Health and Fitness' started by Dreamliner, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. LeafUF
    Offline

    LeafUF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Messages:
    13,392
    Likes Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Wandering
    Ratings Received:
    +338
    I hope more people stop eating gluten so I can have it all to myself. Its amazing how many people are self-diagnosing themselves with gluten intolerance. I dated a girl with celiac, trust me, you would know if you had a legitimate gluten allergy.

    By all means cut it out of your diets, leave the pastas to me.
  2. gators04
    Offline

    gators04 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings Received:
    +4
    Back to the studies. I'm sure there are studies that may highly correlate obesity negatively with longevity because of the negative influence of other factors involved with obesity. Do overweight individuals die younger than thin individuals?? It can be convoluted with so many factors involved with the body, ie, genetics, etc.
  3. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,028
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +802
    (Dream sees opening, others will surely understand), based on the studies, the only negative implication of obesity would appear to be mobility issues, but of course this would only pertain to the fattest of the fat, the people who are so, so very fat that it's literally arduous (and sometimes painful) to move.

    The 'negative influences' ascribed to obesity are so-called 'risk factors', which are basically just associations. In other words, there is no evidence that obesity actually causes diabetes, to cite one of the 'risk factors.'

    But since we do know that obesity confers protections for diabetics, the question begs: how much longer can we refer to such as a 'paradox' before we finally accept that it's a benefit ?

    To bring the subject full-circle, since this is a fitness forum, I think it's safe to say that, other than eating normally, the single best thing a diabetic can do is get some regular exercise.
  4. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
    Sure, but LEF did not do the studies.

    The initial study was done at the behest of a supplement company. Most non-commercial follow-up studies either showed no effect or negative effect at the levels of the initial study.

    The positive rat-based studies were at the equivalent of 22g of CLA a day in a 200lb human. That comes out to a bit more than $1/day.

    Like I said, I don't think it'll hurt you to try it, but I have and it's not backed with a lot of sound research, sadly.

    Read more: http://journals.cambridge.org/downl...12a.pdf&code=96afbcad75f9c025a69d566e33aeaf5e
  5. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
    There are myriad studies that support this, yes:

    If you're talking about just health and life, it's OK to be fat, but it ain't OK to be obese.
  6. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
    Some more:

    Diabetes:
    Cardiovascular disease:
    Stroke:
    Cardiovascular death:
    Breast cancer:
    Other cancers:
    Fertility:
    Asthma & Sleep Apnea:
    Alzheimer's:
    Skeletal issues:
    Death in general:
  7. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,028
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +802
    Relative to normal weight, obese (BMI 30-35) not associated with higher mortality risk:

    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137

    Women over 50, lowest mortality risk at 34.1, upper-range Class I obese:

    http://www.healthyweight.net/obesity1.htm#1

    According to CDC, among non-smokers under 60, obese (BMI 30-35) 23% lower mortality risk than normal weight. Morbidly obese (BMI 35+) mere untenable risk 12-17%:

    http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2007/11/fat-and-long-life-obesity-crisis-is.html

    Highest BMI's only weakly associated with mortality. Obese diabetics fare better than lean diabetics:

    http://www.jabfm.org/content/25/4/422.full
  8. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,028
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +802
  9. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
  10. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
    Nope, well-supported and not even close to being weak.
  11. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
    Aaaannd back to your first link:

    Durrrr, being obese = not good.
  12. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,028
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +802
    Same study: "Overall Grade I obesity not associated with higher mortality risk."

    CDC study: relatively fewer deaths in two heaviest groups (overweight, obese) lower mortality risk than two leanest groups (underweight, normal):

    http://www.healthyweight.net/cntroversy.htm

    ^ Interesting read about the politics-driven nature of obesity research and how it colors findings.
  13. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,028
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +802
    This notion of since obesity is linked with higher rates of diabetes, that the thing to do is simply not to become obese to begin with, is absurd and infantile.

    For starters, diabetes, and especially obesity, are highly heritable. There is no more evidence that people eat their way into diabetes than there is that people eat their way into obesity.

    Put another way, the man with a BMI of 35 ate his way to a BMI of 35 in the same way that a man with a BMI of 23 ate his way to a BMI of 23. And all told, better to be a diabetic with a BMI of 35:

    http://diabetes.webmd.com/20120807/obesity-paradox-thin-not-in-for-type-2-diabetes

    Accordingly, since getting fat doesn't cause diabetes, and since the vast majority cannot sustain weight-loss, and since weight-loss does not prevent heart attacks in diabetes, and since fat diabetics live longer than thin diabetics, and since health can be improved through weight-neutral strategies ... you'd be a blithering idiot to badger a diabetic about his/her weight.
  14. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
    Again, you cannot or will not read it. The actual data shows HIGHER MORTALITY RATE for every single group.

    Read it again. A thousand times until you somehow understand it. The data showed higher mortality rate for every single group of obese people than the overweight category.

    You have not only made a ludicrous argument, you're actually using contradictory data to support it. It's staggering. I'd let it go, but you're in a position to actually dole out this terrible advice based on a total misunderstanding of all scientific data.

    I mean, you realize all of this, right? That you're completely wrong top-to-bottom about obesity and mortality.
  15. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
    Grade 1 Obese: HIGHER mortality than next lowest category
  16. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,028
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +802
    According to Flegal, 5% lower mortality for BMI 30-35 than normal weight. Women over 50 with BMI 34 longest-lived. Among non-smokers under 60, 23% lower mortality risk for obese than for normal.

    Why are you badgering diabetics about their weight ? Do you want to kill them ?

    Un-fricking-believable.
  17. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
    Changing the argument? Well at least you finally understand the data. (hopefully, we'll see)

    Being obese puts you at higher mortality rate than being overweight. If you are obese (in all obesity grades, smoking data removed), you reduce your risk of death by any causes by losing weight. Period.
  18. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,028
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +802
    Not true. Flegal is everywhere! She finds: Grade I obese lives longer. So, obviously these hysterical declarations of risks increasing over BMI 30 are false on their face:

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-01/jaaj-hlo122712.php

    And hey, not only is this true of Americans (and Canadians), it's also true of the Brazilians:

    http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23251690

    Diabetics need to lose weight, my ass. What, do you want to kill them ? Thanks!
  19. orangeblueorangeblue
    Offline

    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    56,236
    Likes Received:
    546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +2,373
    This is the opposite of what the study found.

    The exact opposite. I'm flabbergasted that you still don't understand the study or the data. God forbid an obese person actually come to you for advice.
  20. Dreamliner
    Offline

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    64,028
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +802
    What is flabbergasting is, well, several things are flabbergasting where you're concerned ... so I'll take it in installments:

    You're confusing the earlier CDC findings with the much more extensive and accurate studies of Flegal and her breakdown of the study therein.

    Other studies I've posted are consistent with Flegal's findings that not only do risks not escalate about BMI 30, but the 30-35 category outlives normal weight weight.

    You clearly don't like the findings.

    You continue to harp on associations.

    You have apparently not backed off badgering diabetics about their weight.

    Astonishing.

Share This Page