Cruz, Lee -- Push the Button

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by MichiGator2002, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. g8orbill
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    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

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    A liberal academe and that is the best you can come up with jdr - wow
  2. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Robert Byrd was certainly one of them back in the day, as were many democrats; but the underlying connection was their conservatism.

    To answer your question and to be crystal clear on this, it is not my contention that "conservatives" are racist--at least not as a categorical imperative as you seems to me by your question.

    I do, however, believe that most of the racism that still exists is tied to segment of conservatives who are indeed racist, and I wasn't accusing anyone on here of racism--not LD or anyone else--only questioning whether folks realize the historical connection of the language employed in the effort to deny the legitimacy of two black leaders from different eras.
  3. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Of course. Bill is the master rhetorician. And fwiw, you used hooey admirably for which there is no good reply.
  4. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    The issue I take with this is the discount of the racism that is occurring within the black community towards whites. I think it's almost equal to that of the white's, and possibly even more. They're certainly not Conservative.
  5. gatorman_07732
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    gatorman_07732 Well-Known Member

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    You think you know that historical racism has been because of conservatives, when somehow magically the republican party fought against it. Is it your contention that the progressives were then the republican party, of which you would have identified? It wasn't until the regressives came along with their bright ideas and hijacked the race card claiming they know what's best. Can't say they helped much with their "not so bright" ideas of the welfare state.
  6. philobeddoe
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    philobeddoe Well-Known Member

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    Watch out ... you are dealing with someone who is painting all white conservatives with a broad brush and sees these at issue terms/phrasings in a singular absolute .... versus with a perspective reasonably and logically focused by considering the many differences in the histories, "conditions", and positions of BO and MLK.
  7. orangeblueorangeblue
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    orangeblueorangeblue Well-Known Member

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    Tim, this seems like a pretty big generalization to make, honestly.
  8. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it is, and I shouldn't, sorry for that. I certainly don't intend to say the entirety of black people are racists, but clearly there are some, and I think it's at least up for debate the amount that there are. Anecdotally, I'm a little tainted -- attending 'urban' schools growing up, substituting in 'urban' schools, and working in 'urban' areas has left me seeing racism still very much alive, and it's not just whites are who are the offenders. It's frustrating to see whites as the only safe bet to call out for it, however. Calling white conservatives racists is seemingly safe, inoffensive, and acceptable - but to delve into the topic of racism within minority-groups seems to be off limits.
  9. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    On your first point (the discount), I agree. Often minorities do get away with racist language sometimes in ways that I think they should not. At the same time, there are historical inequities in power and individual agency that has made the effects more pernicious for minorities when directed at them then when they try to direct it at others. That said, to an individual, yes, it's wrong (period).

    I disagree that it's equal in occurrence. I can't see how anyone could draw such a conclusion. I also question about whether blacks not being conservative. But here self-identification of political ideology gets a little strange since there seems to be slightly nuanced differences in labels across groups.

    African Americans appear to be more likely to identify themselves as moderate to conservative then they are moderate to liberal (with moderates comprising the largest group--which is similar to other races and ethnic groups) even though they are overwhelmingly likely to vote for democrats.
  10. Minister_of_Information
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    I find the comparison of MLK and BHO to be both laughable and somewhat insulting. I can think of no reason to conjoin the two analytically as historical figures except as they both are grouped by consensus within the same ethnicity.
  11. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    No one compares to the mythologized MLK, but that guy doesnt exist anyways. But I would imagine as far as figures of esteem in the black community in the US and around the world, he'll be in the pantheon next to MLK and others, regardless of how they compare as historical figures or in temperment.
  12. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    You are conflating conservatives with a formal political party. Sure, the pubs (i.e. Lincoln) spearheaded the end of slavery, and pubs in congress also signed on to the CRA in the 60s--these are indisputable facts (that should be recognized always)--but the latter was in contrast to what conservatives wanted, which is true for conservative dems of the time who likewise vociferously opposed the CRA...Robert Byrd being a clear example of a conservative democrat, but also Barry Goldwater and William F Buckley exemplify this opposition on the right.

    But at what point in history are you talking about progressives? Early 20th century progressives are only slightly linked to 60s progressives and/or liberals and that is mainly through social liberalism (even though early progressives tended to be racist as well).

    I also don't know what you mean by "hijacked" the race card since it's also indisputable that the civil rights movement support came from liberal whites at the grassroots level and pushed by democratic presidents (Kennedy and then of course Johnson). It's true that pubs (and dems) in congress voted for it, but again, this came in opposition to what conservatives identifying with either party wanted.
  13. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Except it was not a comparison of BHO to MLK, but a comparison of the rhetoric used against both.
  14. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Which by conjoining the phenomenon of the rhetoric used against each implies that both figures are comparable in some way.
  15. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    The connection between the two is important in specific ways based on race and their occupying (or having occupied) leadership positions in public life. But I think it's clear from what I wrote that I was discussing how language was used against each, not about whether one was or wasn't as "good" or "inspirational" as the other.
  16. gatorman_07732
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    Progressives from FDR on. Byrd was considered a centrist democrat not a conservative.
  17. dadx4
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    Cruz has a favorable rating of 74% today....
  18. Lawdog88
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    [​IMG]
  19. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    who's ass did you pull that number out of?

    http://www.burntorangereport.com/diary/13189/ted-cruz-by-Ben-Sherman

    http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews....z-and-gop-taking-huge-hit-from-shutdown.html/

  20. 96Gatorcise
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