Cruz, Lee -- Push the Button

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by MichiGator2002, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    These politicians were voted into office on the promise of doing their job, in-spite of polls.
  2. oragator1
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    oragator1 Premium Member

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    The NBC wsj poll had a dem and a pub leading it, the question was whether anyone in your household was a government employee, and a 2010 Gallup poll had 17% of respondents saying that they themselves worked for the government, not even counting rest of household ( I posted it on another thread).

    This is the exact same stuff that happened last year at this time, and all of the "explanations" were proven wrong.

    At some point, the diehards will have to realize that the path the pubs chose to take was unpopular and ultimately self defeating. The deal they got today out of the senate could have been gotten weeks ago, without the political damage. And now the dems have the upper hand for the negotiations, our cost of borrowing has gone up(increasing the debt), obamacare has been overshadowed when the web failure would have been the central story, they didn't get a dime on the budget and basically they gave the very gvt workers they don't like a free 3 week vacation.

    The fact that anyone supports them after this month is surprising.
  3. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    Depends, are there Pac 12 alumni included in the group of people who get to decide whether Saban keeps his job or not? If so, what they think is fairly relevant. If not, it isn't a very good analogy.

    Assuming the Tea Party actually does want its members to get elected to and hold office (perhaps a questionable assumption given their actions upon getting there, but nevertheless...), a poll of how much Tea Party supporters like the Tea Party would be, frankly, useless. A poll that tries to sample the electorate is what would actually tell you anything.
  4. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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  5. Minister_of_Information
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    Minister_of_Information I'm your huckleberry Premium Member

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    Don't conflate the ability to conjure currency with the simultaneous creation of value. There are limits to everything, including the motivating power of currency when it is overabundant.
  6. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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  7. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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  8. oragator1
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    oragator1 Premium Member

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    He did the right thing, even from a selfish standpoint. Delaying something beyond the debt limit deadline when it was destined to pass anyway wouldn't have gotten him anything.
  9. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    And smartly so.
  10. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/mike-lee-favorability-poll-98137.html

  11. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    I know but he talked the talk but stumbled in the end.

    considering the title of the thread...he was ready to blow it up and push the button.
  12. GatorBen
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    GatorBen Well-Known Member

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    I suspect he was told in no unclear terms that Reid wasn't going to go with paperwork blocking, and was going to have him stand up on the Senate floor and state on camera why he was delaying for 36 hours a bill that everyone admits has the votes to pass the Senate, when the only effect of doing so is to delay inevitable passage past the point where the debt ceiling is reached.

    In other words, he kinda got the gun pushed over to him and was told "here, commit political suicide if you really want to, but everyone knows that this compromise would pass today, and will still pass on Friday even if you play the procedural delay game."
  13. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    He lived to fight another day, I suppose. Wouldn't have put it past Harry Reid to try some totally fraudulent and unjustified effort to expel him or whatever other things he might have in mind. If the whole of the GOP aside from a handful of vocal statesmen were willing to enable false brinksmanship, what can you do?
  14. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/ted-cruz-values-voter-summit-straw-poll-98232.html

    He did pull 42% with social conservatives....

    interesting the fiscal conservatives only pulled single digits.

    So what is more important to conservatives? Social or Fiscal?

  15. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    I think some of the fiscal vs. social distinctions are bogus. I think social liberalism and government dependency enablement of it is a helluva lot more expensive than social conservatism and personal responsibility. I mean, a fiscal conservative of all stripes should be against federal funding for abortions or stem cell research, because... fiscally conservative. But for some reason, these are just bracketed off as socially conservative, and worse, people who are all for dumping taxpayer money into these things at the federal level still gave the gall to say they are fiscally conservative but socially liberal. No you aren't a fiscal conservative. What is more fiscally conservative than the 9th and 10th Amendments, and getting the federal government to get out of issues with no connection to its constitutional authority? What is more fiscally conservative than *not* sending the DOJ after every cross shoved into any remote federally leased mole-hill?
  16. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    If only your rigid understanding reflected actual reality. Fiscal conservationism can logically have no bearing on whether someone would support a woman's right to choose since they are distinct issues. And since conservatism just like liberalism, is not necssarily a proxy for morality, but rather how people think some facet of society should operate, it makes little sense to think one should or must apply to the other.

    People are much more dynamic, and yes hypocritical (yourself and myself included) than your cynicism allows you to appreciate. Thus, you end up labeling people as having "gall" to count themselves as being socially liberal but fiscally conservative.

    Such turdish, inflexible views are what place you on the further edges of the right wing since most people tend to gravitate toward a more middle ground that is often conflicting and messy thus having a vein of incoherence at times. But this just reflects the messy and complex life in the modern age, something you can't fit into your neat little categorical boxes, michi.
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  17. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    abortion is a fiscal issue....

    pay hundreds now or 10s of thousands for 18 plus years....

    it is in reality just math
  18. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    You can't be for fiscal responsibility and also for wasting federal funds handing out people's birth control that actual, functional adults would get for themselves, can't waste it inventing powers Congress never had, can't waste it on ideological crusades against harmless religious displays, etc.
  19. MichiGator2002
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    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

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    That is a fiscal issue for the parents. You also can't be fisacally conservative and see that as the government's problem, frankly.
  20. 96Gatorcise
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    96Gatorcise Well-Known Member

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    why pay the thousands upon thousands on birth control (condoms, pills etc) When am abortion is less expensive in the long run..

    again just crunching the numbers

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