Criticisms of Wiggins

Discussion in 'Nuttin' but Net' started by rserina, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    Interesting piece, though still pretty early to judge much of anything this season:
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--is-andrew-wiggins-the-clear-no--1-pick-in-the-2014-nba-draft--not-so-fast--scouts-say-014144541.html

    This has always sort of raised questions with me about Wiggins and made me think some are devaluing Parker. Wiggins has sick athleticism, but his game has never seemed as advanced as Parker's, nor is he as competitive and aggressive as Parker or Randle. The argument that Vince Carter is his "worst-case scenario" makes a ton of sense, too. Even if he never lives up to the hype, Wiggins will still have a great career in the NBA. But can he be that sort of transcendent prospect worth tanking for?
  2. gatorchamps0607
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    gatorchamps0607 Always Rasta Premium Member

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    I only saw Jabari Parker for a few minutes during their first game but he came out on fire on both ends of the court. That guy is going to be special. If I were an NBA team, he is my first choice hands down.
  3. taxman22
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    taxman22 Premium Member

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    I saw Wiggins at a practice in Kansas, my wife is a KU alum.

    He's very athletic, but I'm unsure of what position he will fall into. He's very thin, can't be more than 180. He needs to put on serious weight IMO. I know some will say what about Durant. Maybe he could be that type of player too. He was very tentative, and I'm just not sure he's cut that way if you know what I mean. It was just a practice, so who knows. He will be fun to watch next month in Gainesville, Prather might give him fits.
  4. UFG8rGuy3283
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    Randle then Parker then Wiggins....if Chris Walker meets his potential, he's KG v2, imo.
  5. UFG8rGuy3283
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    Wiggins has always reminded me of a more athletic Dejuan Wagner.
  6. phideltdj
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    phideltdj Well-Known Member

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    Bring back the old NBA rules during the Bad Boys time and Wiggins would be way down the board but now since you can't hardly breath on anyone for defense he should be fine with his body frame.
  7. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    I like Randle, but I still don't know what his calling card will be that separates him at the next level. He isn't a stretch guy, a rim defender, or a ferocious pick and roll finisher, but more of a physical low post scorer and rebounder. I am not sure that puts you ahead of a scoring two guard with a sick mid range game like Parker or an athletic freak like Wiggins. Those guys have a huge advantage in the NBA game.
  8. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    His length and athleticism I think make him an ideal NBA three, but I hear what you are saying. Durant was unbelievably driven and entirely changed his game once he got to then NBA from a catch and shoot big at Texas to a great dribble drive threat. He has expanded his game almost every year since, whether it is drawing fouls, post ups, passing, defense, whatever.
  9. GatorsGators
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    Parker ain't a SG. Not nearly quick enough.

    Randle is the best freshman imo. He might be a bit of a tweener, but he's good enough to play SF or PF. Being a tweener is only a problem when you're not good enough to stick at one position, and I think Randle is more than good enough to stick at multiple.

    Wiggins has superstar potential and he's really good right now. I'd take him over Parker. Not sure about Randle.

    Embiid is going to be really good eventually as well. Still bitter that we lost out on him.
  10. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    He definitely lacks the quicks of great perimeter defenders, but his offensive game is NBA two guard ready: smooth off the bounce, great pull up jumper in the high post out to the perimeter, and good scoring moves in the paint. He may play some three in the NBA because so many teams use small lineups, but he has the ideal skill set offensively for a two with the wide lanes.
  11. your_perfect_enemy
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    Embiid is going to be interesting. It sounds like many a projecting him to go in the top 10 but still has a 7' project. It sounds like he's still really raw, so I wonder how much playing time he would get over Yound and Harris who are at least both more physically developed. No doubt that Billy could develop him into a stud, but if he is one and done would we have seen the benefit.
  12. madgator
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    I agree that Randle is the best freshman and would probably be my first pick. However, the NBA doesn't draft on value today or value next year. They pick based upon potential.

    and to be honest, Wiggins does have the most potential. The results are up to him. But I can't imagine that he won't be the first pick in the draft.
  13. GatorsGators
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    Offensively he could play some SG, but defensively, he'd get blown away by just about every pro SG and most SFs.

    He's slow. He's also extremely skilled and will be an awesome scorer in the league, but defensively he's a big concern. Wiggins and Randle will be studs defensively and have just as much potential offensively.
  14. bakaduin
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    Honestly this is why I laugh when high school players are anointed before they step on the college court. It wasn't so long ago Shabazz Muhammad was spoken of as the second coming. That didn't work out so well.
  15. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    I guess maybe potential means different things to different people. I don't see Randle ever being a scorer or a versatile offensive player in the league. At best, his offensive game will be Zach Randolph's, but ever since the McD AA game everyone has been pimping Randle like he has some established offensive repertoire. Maybe he develops one, but I don't see any indication of that other than a few instances of him taking the ball coast to coast in the travel season or in all star games. I mean, what makes him better than Al Horford? And, for the record, I absolutely loved Randle on the circuit and desperately wanted him at Florida. He should be a great collegiate player and a great pro, but I don't see anything that suggests he will be a better offensive player than Parker.

    And with Wiggins all we hear is potential. But the guy isn't assertive at all, he doesn't have great instincts on the court, and he doesn't have a phenomenal skill level. Sure, I could see him developing an NBA scoring game, but he is way, way behind similar players like Vince Taylor, James, Anthony, and Durant at this stage. Ever since he reclassified, though, all the talk has been about him easily unseating Parker.

    I am no Duke fan, but I think Parker's game will translate extremely well at the next level. I had also never seen his athleticism questioned until recently. Maybe this is why:
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1718507-ultimate-scouting-report-on-2014-nba-draft-prospect-jabari-parker

    I can see why you take Wiggins at first overall because his athleticism is off the charts and he is the prototypical scoring wing. But I have my money on Parker being the best pro out of the lot.
  16. REM08
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    REM08 Well-Known Member

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    Parker reminds me of Paul Pierce, although I dont' remember the young Paul Pierce. He's good though and, like Randle, is ready to contribute in college from day one.

    Rserina, why don't you consider Randle a stretch 4? We don't have a big sample size yet, but he's shot well from midrange and deeper. He's not incredibly long or anything, I see that. But he can shoot from range, is a good passer and handles the ball well, for a forward, on the perimeter. I've read some comparisons to him being Derrick Coleman without the baggage.

    I think Randle is going to be the best college freshmen. He's polished and big and strong. He's going to put up big numbers just going beast mode in the paint. He's a tough matchup in college. I agree his ceiling isnt' what Wiggins is in the NBA though. He can be a very good NBA player I believe, but Wiggins has a ceiling that is tough to match. I think thats what we need to keep in mind when we look at recruits coming out of high school. To what degree is their ranking on their potential - versus what they're capable of now.
  17. corpgator
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    Wiggins very similar to Tracy McGrady. Similar size and skillsets, and both didn't try hard enough. If McGrady had put in the practice time, he could have been the best ever. He never had a coach to really drive him hard.
  18. rserina
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    I haven't seen it in the all star games and the film, nor have I heard much about it in the travel reports. I agree that he is a stud, but I always have questions about physical fours at the next level. The four as a position in the league has almost been eliminated. You don't have traditional power forwards, so you have to be especially skilled or versatile there. Guys like James and Anthony play a ton at the four now and are quite effective. There are some unbelievable long fours like Anthony Davis, Greg Monroe, and Ibaka. You have elite shooters like Nowitzki and Ryan Andersen. Garnett was the best pick and roll defender of his generation (ever?) and could stretch the floor with his shot. Aldridge comes to mind as a successful physical, high post four. Randolph has become one (though the Memphis offense is like molasses when it doesn't run through Gasol in the high post). Boozer, too. Not many others, though. Guys who might have been elite fours in past decades have become almost exclusively fives (Bosh, Horford, Gasol, Stoudemire). Gasol got killed at the four last year next to Howard and is much better against fives at both ends. Same with Stoudemire once he was forced to play the four next to Shaq, and the Knicks are a cluster in the paint with him next Chandler.

    None of that is to say Randle can't develop into an elite stretch four or point four or whatever direction the league is going. He has the work ethic to do so. But I haven't seen anything yet to suggest he will.
  19. rserina
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    rserina VIP Member

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    The interesting thing in this whole discussion is that we won't know for awhile how it all shakes out. The NCAA season will tell us a little, but it will be probably another 6-8 years down the road before we know more. What role will health play? Surrounding personnel? Coaching? This class is loaded, though, with great prospects and it will be fun to watch them develop.
  20. bakaduin
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    Julius Randle just looked like the best player on the floor vs. MSU. He wasn't without freshman mistakes and needs to cut the TO though.

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