Crazy Uncle of modern conservatism on the March on Washington

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by Row6, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. cjgator76
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    cjgator76 Well-Known Member

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    Good post, but I'm afraid that you're overthinking the topic.

    The whole point here is:

    No need to go any deeper than that.
  2. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Well, in this case, they were defending the Jim Crow racial order of the South, which most people might characterize as a "racist" one. "Conservatives" generally defend the existing order from what might seem like radical change, especially when it might subvert entrenched private social heirachies. The "liberal" (or perhaps even radical) position here being the destruction of Jim Crow and the end of segregation. But it probably needs to be pointed out that these are "conservative" and "liberal" in the lower-case sense. So, the distinction between those and ideological Liberalism and Conservativism of 2013 should be clear. People seem quick to read into what may or may not be there, probably because there is typically an agenda in these type of arguments.
  3. CHFG8R
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    CHFG8R Premium Member

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    Look, I probably jumped on him a little unfairly there. But the distinction must be made IMO. Certainly, it depends on how you define Conservative/conservative. In the modern sense - minus politically motivated race baiting - it's typically a financial/economic difference. So, perhaps a more correct term than "Southern conservatives" would be "Southern racists."

    A Freudian slip, perhaps?
  4. LeesGator
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    LeesGator Active Member

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    Its a good reminder of where we've been, how far we've come and how much more work there is to do. Nobody should be proud of that part of our history. But there were racist in the north, south, east and west. WFB was an old school conservative and his racist views are really not part of the mainstream of this country. But its an easy shortcut to thinking and certainly is fun to deflect from our current problems.
  5. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    You're a quick study.
  6. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    I agree that one cannot make comparisons between the dems and repubs of 1963 and now have said that numerous times. I think you should be aiming that at the current republicans claiming that without admitting they wouldn't support the signature policies of those they now claim as heroes - and that includes Lincoln, MLK, and Dirksen.

    As to Lincoln's Laissez Faire business policies, that was orthodoxy of the day and not what he was known for. He was known for invading the south and overturning slavery. BTW, I am a business owner (since 1978) and am not in favor of unnecessary regulations, but what constitutes necessary we may differ on.
  7. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Perhaps you haven't heard of Bull Connor, Scherwin, Goodman, and Chaney, all preceded by a century of lynchings - and this all after slavery.

    It's amusing that after the fit of pretend bi-partisanship that you attacked me with, you then back up wargun's totally partisan nonsense where he tries to link himself and today's tea party republican party with big government people like Lincoln, MLK, and to a lesser degree, Dirsksen (and yes, I remember old Ev).

    I was starting to think you might be smart.
  8. wargunfan
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    wargunfan Well-Known Member

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    There were lethal race riots in the 1960s in the following cities.

    July 1964 Rochester NY
    July 1964 New York City
    August 1964 Philadelphia PA
    August 1964 Jersey City NJ
    August 1964 Patterson NJ
    August 1964 Elizabeth NJ
    August 1964 Chicago IL
    August 1965 Los Angeles (Watts) CA
    July 1966 Cleveland OH
    June 1966 San Francisco CA
    June 1966 Chicago IL
    July 1967 Newark NJ
    July 1967 Detroit MI
    July 1967 Plainfield NJ
    July 1967 Milwaukee WI
    April 1968 Washington DC
    April 1968 New York City
    May 1968 Chicago IL
    May 1968 Pittsburgh PA

    What do these cities have in common other than being outside the South?
    They are all Democrat strongholds. Governed by Democrats. Run by Democrats. From the Mayors to the City Councils to the Police Departments all run by Democrats.
    The partisan propaganda by Row and others that racial unrest was confined to the South is just revisionist BS. Racial unrest was a national problem. Even in the South the common thread running through the unrest was Democrat government. Southern states were united in their voting for local, state and national Democrats. They ran the show in the southern states. And they kept Blacks in their place with intimidation and murder.
    Row will continue to throw his revisionist crap at the wall but it won't stick. Folks are just to knowledgeable nowadays to believe it.
  9. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    Let's talk about some history...

    By the time the CRA came about in 1964, liberals were gaining control of the democratic party and were the driving political force championing the civil rights movement. This is what largely explains how and why African Americans came to the democratic party in the 1960s, despite virulent racism among southern democrats, who by the 1970s were either forced out of the party, left to become republicans, or if they stayed, such as Robert Byrd, began to speak out in support of civil rights and against racism.

    Over on the right side of the aisle, conservatives were beginning their own ascendancy in republican party politics...a la William F. Buckley, Barry Goldwater, and other movement forebearers, the former outspokenly supporting the white supremacist movement in the south in the 1950s and early 1960s. And even though Buckley came to reject racism among southern white republicans by the mid 1960s, racism was still the spring that continued to feed into the party.

    We can see how this clearly played out over the subsequent decades. Although there is quite a bit to admire about Barry Goldwater, a big part of his legacy and the that of the Goldwater conservatives was the 'states rights' mantra, which spawned the racist/racially divisive southern strategy. Recently, however, this strategy has begun to lose some (much?) of its steam at the national level as the continuing demographic changes in the US have made it tougher for a republican party to even be a national party.

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but republicans have in turn, alternately rejected any minority outreach, or continue to insult minorities by using the same dog whistle racialized rhetoric (got 47%???) and opposition to many things that minorities believe in. This might please the southern, overwhelmingly white conservative base of the party but it also signals to minorities and anyone else listening that they are not welcome. I mean, you can only call African Americans welfare queens, moochers, parasites, "victims," 47% etc...so many times.

    In any case, wargun is right; many dems have tried to hide from the party's racist past...but in one way this is just the flip side of the coin to republicans, who now, quite unbelievably try to claim a civil rights history for African Americans that isn't theirs to claim.
  10. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Premium Member

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    Summation of jdrs post:

    Liberal democrats took over their party and threw a bone to blacks called government assistance. That is where the "welfare queens" were created.

    Republican's preached personal responsibility, hard work, smaller government and jobs, so that is racist. I see.
  11. Row6
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    Row6 New Member

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    Still no modern TH Republicans eagerly endorsing either the CRA of 1964 or the mantle of Lincoln or Dirksen, yet many are trying to somehow be heirs to that Republican party of old. To the contrary, we have had some of these types arguing for repeal of the public accommodations portion of that law and in other ways endorsing the party of Buckley and Goldwater. Please reread MLK's words denouncing the latter and those Republicans who endorsed him before claiming the reverend's mantle as well.
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  12. asuragator
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    asuragator Well-Known Member

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    That you consider the CRA throwing a bone to African Americans is your first problem. Your second is that you seem unable to grasp how racism (and/or discrimination) isn't dependent on whether one believes in personal responsibility or smaller government or not.
  13. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Premium Member

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    We are long past racism other than Democrats using the same for a political tool every 4 years. Now we are experiencing reverse racism...whites automatically excluded from jobs, universities etc due to "affirmative action". And we have Democratic Poster Children like "Elizabeth Warren" applying for jobs as a Native American and the media not holding her accountable when it is blatant, and she lied her ass off.

    Political Correctness whether with Blacks, Whites, Asians, Hispanics, Gays or Gender Confused, is killing our nation and it's values. How about cutting out the labels and allowing everyone to compete straight up...based on your abilities, work ethic etc.

    Racism has become another crutch. We are waaaaay beyond that democratic talking point.

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