County Wants To Be 51st State

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gatorplank, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    Speaking for me, yes.

    I don't see a compelling reason to force a large segment of the population to live under governance that fundamentally does not represent them and is violating their rights. If they believe they can govern themselves better, why not?

    I am pretty sure this will be a significant task for them to gain the support to do this - it's not like a few guys getting pissed at a bar and rallying support for secession... and then realizing what they did during the hangover the next day.

    It will be a rare occurrence that you can get the support needed in a contiguous land area, to successfully secede and form your own state. And one of the possible outcomes of an attempt like this, is the leaders of Colorado get their heads out of their arses, and make some reasonable compromises to represent the state more effectively, respect the rights of the people, and avoid the secession altogether.

    I just don't see a great likelihood of us falling into a chaotic pattern of secessions / secession attempts.
  2. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Yeah, I think this is more irrational fear than anything. But I do think democracy is troubled when people base their decisions not on what people actually say, but what they think they actually meant when they say things. Like, it is only slips of the tongue when the true nature of someone's political goals are revealed, not their actual rhetoric. When you hear "background checks" or "gun control" as "Getting rid of the second amendment," I question how democracy can work sometimes.
  3. MichiGator2002
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    The world would actually be quite a bit better if pretty rhetoric couldn't effectively masked real intentions.
  4. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    If the county they live in doesn't have elected county leaders that support your views, making them state leaders only gives them more cache.

    It changes little and since it takes the fed to ok a new state, is much ado about nothing.

    Best thing to do is split the county to make it smaller and more in tune with those that live there.
  5. OaktownGator
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    But their problems are with the laws and mandates being enacted by the state legislature... how would splitting the county help them?
  6. rivergator
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    rivergator Well-Known Member

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    I think a petition to join Wyoming has a much greater chance of being successful.
  7. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    As a Puerto Rican I'd be severely ticked off if the U.S. decided to make a state made up of all it's territories. States have a hard enough time getting things done...and this would be akin to having had Alaska, Hawaii, Arizona and New Mexico to be one state. Except in that case the distances would be closer.
  8. OklahomaGator
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    The US Constitution has a high barrier to keep this from happening. Basically, the legislature of the existing State and the US Congress would have to agree. I don't see that happening.


    Article IV
    Section. 3.

    New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress
    • Like Like x 1
  9. rpmGator
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    rpmGator Well-Known Member

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    It would be rare if everyone in that county wanted to be a new state, and they may have to split off and still would not satisfy all.

    State taxation to build roads and such in a very large area with very few people, will give them an idea why they get more from the state they now live in, that what they give the state.
  10. wgbgator
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    This makes me wonder what would have happened had the Confederacy lived past the war. A nation founded on legal secession forced to deal with a myriad of problems collectively without the unifying nature of immediate self-preservation on the table anymore.
  11. icequeen
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    icequeen Well-Known Member

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    And, yes, I'm one of the many who do NOT want statehood. For a variety of reasons, not the least of which include family members present during various massacres and revolts on the island, gag laws, political arrests and executions, etc. So, no, I will never come to terms with Puerto Rico being a state.

    BTW, less than 74,000 people voted for statehood. Out of 3.6 million Puerto Ricans on the island. Not exactly a landslide.
  12. MichiGator2002
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    Were you outraged by that recent double vote stunt?
  13. OaktownGator
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    OaktownGator Well-Known Member

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    Good find. Basically shuts down this hypothetical... not that it had much chance of getting off the ground to begin with.
  14. icequeen
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    Yes, but it's not the first time they've tried that garbage.

    They also, around the same time, told all Puerto Ricans here in the US and in Puerto Rico that they would need new birth certificates issued due to "corruption" and those that didn't would be considered illegals in the US. And while it was announced somewhat, it was relatively hush hush for a while. I didn't find out until my mother-in-law told me over the phone as a joke that her son was now married to an illegal alien. This meant that anything we got using the prior certificates were null, including driver's licenses, etc. It's been a heck of a headache.
  15. harwil
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    Rade, why not cede DC back to Maryland carving out the Capitol. ,the White House and other federal buildings.The Virginia part of DC was ceded back in pre-civil war times to Virginia
  16. harwil
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    I wish they were reversed, as historically, red is the color of revolution, blue for royalty.As aTory, I hate having to wear a red tie on election day . Margaret Thatcher always wore a blue flower on election day.
  17. harwil
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    Somehow this was done in 1863 for West Virginia with outy Virginia,s consent nor the consent of the other Confederate staes.Something about the power of arms or conquest.
  18. GatorRade
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    GatorRade Well-Known Member

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    Yeah something like this seems to make the most sense.
  19. GatorBen
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    The other Confederate states wouldn't have had to consent. Virginia would, and I believe the federal government took the position of recognizing a shadow government of Virginia (Reorganized Virginia) that consented to the creation of West Virginia on the basis that the rebellion government was not a legitimate state government under the Constitution.

    Whether West Virginia really should have become a state constitutionally is an interesting question, but it more or less got resolved without being addressed when Virginia sued West Virginia after the Civil War seeking to reclaim two counties that it claimed had not validly been included in the votes creating West Virginia and the Supreme Court rejected its claim.

    See Virginia v. West Virginia, 78 U.S. 39 (1871) if you're interested in more about that.
  20. harwil
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    I don't think Maryland would want it, especially the assumed debt

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