Conservatives Brace for the Possibility Obamacare Won't Totally Suck

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator996, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    There will still be a majority of people covered by insurance which will negociate prices to within reason for big procedures.

    But hey there won't be any competition or negciation in a free market. We just need to let the government keep regulating and mandating to complicate the process more... :roll:
  2. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    There is limited competition in the free market. It has already been shown.

    While insurance companies are negotiating the price of large and small procedures, many people are unable to get insurance without the government passing regulations. For them, they have no chance to take advantage of the negotiations. Believe it or not, negotiation and private insurance will continue to exist in a system with an individual mandate (as it has in Massachusetts).
  3. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    No duh some can't get insurance. Known losses are not an insurance problem. Americans are good people and don't need government to help others.

    I know. SHOCKING!

    Sadly the statist cannot comprehend.
  4. gator85jd
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    gator85jd New Member

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    You've GOT to be kidding me!!! This is rich -- you post an opinion piece and act as though conservatives are on the run??? Thanks for the laugh, I needed it.

    By the way, you really set the bar high with this thread title, didn't you? The "possibility that 0bamacare won't totally suck" is a high standard, indeed.
  5. mdgator05
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    So after years and years of these people not getting insurance (or the negotiated rates), can you tell me why people aren't helping others at the rate necessary to ensure only limited economic catastrophes due to healthcare? Why do 2 million people a year declare medical bankruptcy?

    Sadly, the blind idealists can't comprehend what is actually going on around them.
  6. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Using a population estimate of 310,000,000

    0.645% of the population is declaring medical bankruptcy using your numbers.

    Using a CNN articles numbers (first thing on a google search) from 2009 we have 930,000 declaring bankruptcy from medical bills with 75% of those saying they had insurance. Using those numbers we have 0.075% declaring bankruptcy from medical bills that do not have insurance in this country. I wish no one would fall through the cracks. But that is sadly going to happen no matter what.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankruptcy.medical.bills/index.html?_s=PM:HEALTH
  7. mdgator05
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    First, your 310,000,000 is way off, as clearly children can't declare bankruptcy and older Americans have Medicare. Throw in the number of people with single payer plans from the Military, and you have a much smaller denominator.

    So if those are pulled off, the number becomes about 200,000,000 (not even including the single payer health care receiving veterans). The following article places the number of people declaring bankruptcy at 1.7 million. That would make the percentage about 0.862%. Now you look at this over say forty years, which is the time between needing to come off parents' insurance and going onto Medicare, and you see that the average person will experience about 0.35 medical bankruptcies over their lifetime. Sure, some people will experience 2, but that is a huge number for each person (not even counting that many people are tied financially which would make that number even higher). That is a pretty big crack to fall through, with quite a few people falling through during their lifetime.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

    Yes some of the people declaring bankruptcy have health insurance. Many of them have very high deductible plans. From the same article:

  8. Gatorrick22
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    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

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    Your so wrong... I must say that the rebuttal above is the real definition of ignorance. We've posted proof of all these facts numerous times.
  9. madgator
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    madgator Well-Known Member

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    I'm still trying to reconcile when and where exactly health care became a "right."


    Now, I'm not saying that it is or should be treated as typical commerce like a gallon of milk or a car but nonetheless it is a service that one cannot provide for themselves requiring the knowledge, experience, and industry of another human being.

    Not to mention the research, development and manufacture of the equiptment required for the procedures.

    should these people not be compensated for their services?


    and if we are going to bring up the hippocratic oath, then the only way this can be reasonably held as a standard is the whole system has to be stripped down. cost of educations reduced (and all that goes along with that), government added costs have to be reduced. Basically, there is a ton more that goes into it other than insurance reform.
  10. mdgator05
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    No you've simply posted that you believe it and here is somebody else that does too. Again, that doesn't make something not an opinion.
  11. QGator2414
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    It stinks that anyone has to file bankruptcy (btw are you telling me a child cannot have an expensive medical procedure causing their parents to file for bankruptcy?). And as we see it is not that many people and it also illustrates that bankruptcy is not a driving factor at all wrt the cost of healthcare.

    Not sure the obamacare proponents who say we have to pay for those that don't have insurance are capable of understanding this. Especially when you consider the CNN article says three quarters of medical bankruptcies happen to those with insurance.

    But hey...keeping/growing a complicated fascist type system is certainly the best thing. Or of course we could just bankrupt entire generations through our greed. Well we are already doing that... :smoke:
  12. Gatorrick22
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    Fact's are not a matter of opinion.
  13. surfn1080
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    surfn1080 Well-Known Member

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    Hey 996, so far it totally sucks!
  14. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    And it will only get worse. Blow sum bitch up and start over.
  15. mdgator05
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    Sure children can have medical procedures, but they are not the ones declaring the bankruptcy (which is what determines the denominator). It also happens at a far lower rate thanks to programs like SCHIP (similarly older people technically could have a bankruptcy due to medical procedures but almost never do because of Medicare.

    Given that the average is 0.35 bankruptcies per lifetime, that probably means around 15-20% of people (being very conservative and assuming on average 2 bankruptcies per person that declares bankruptcies due to medical issues) will endure one during their lifetime. That is not a small number. Especially considering the fact that this group is not evenly distributed in the amount they owe the medical companies. They are skewed to the people who consumed many services and have high bills, which need to be heavily wiped out and can easily be passed through, as pass-through in an almost completely inelastic market is very close to 100%.

    It is not the biggest component of cost, which is again demand with limited outside options. But it is certainly one of the drivers.

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