Conservatives Brace for the Possibility Obamacare Won't Totally Suck

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator996, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. dangolegators
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    dangolegators Well-Known Member

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    Private sector wasn't getting it done. Simple as that. It's the same deal as Florida homeowners insurance after the hurricanes. Many of the private insurers pulled out of the state. People couldn't obtain insurance, so the state had to step in.
  2. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    repp if I could
  3. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    We continue on with no disappointment...

    SMH! "the state HAD to step in"

    Yeah the state stepped in and is putting others at risk who choose not to buy in coastal areas because a bunch of people did not want to pay market value for their insurance.

    This same entitlement mentality is most certainly how we have created this massive quasi fascist system.

    It is sad that some people appear to not believe they and others can make it through life without daddy government?

    :smoke:
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  4. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    The libbies beat it into each other, their children and their voters. Can't live without your great Uncle Sam because he knows best. Pretty pathetic but we have a multi generational dependency problem with no racial or ethnic monopoly. Essentially we've bred and nurtured a bunch of folks with no intention of taking care of themselves or their families. And of course now, not much ability to do it anyway.
  5. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Sounds like a hopeless situation. You should probably give up voting and following politics.
  6. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    So when one of the hospital corporation that controls delivery of much of the healthcare services experiences one of these "people falling through the cracks," what do you think they will do to the rest of us, who fortunately didn't fall through the cracks? Current evidence suggests they will charge more, which will then cause more people to fall through the cracks, necessitating an increase in what they charge again, and so on and so on and so on. Most markets require the party experiencing the loss of revenue due to bankruptcy to eat some of the losses. However, in healthcare, they can pass them right through to other customers, as the elasticity for healthcare services, especially critical ones, is ridiculously low. In fact, it is so low that people are willing to risk bankruptcy in order to continue receiving the service.
  7. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Really?

    Hospitals like any business know there will be write offs from non payment. The people that run them are smart and this cost is not going to exponentially out of control as a whole. Could a hospital poorly manage/calculate for this and cause it one financial difficulties? Sure. Is it going to be a driving factor of their cost in delivering care? Not a chance!
  8. GatorFanCF
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    GatorFanCF Premium Member

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    danglo's analogy in Citizens Property & Casualty is apt; yet, he proves the opposite point.
    Citizens is actuarially unsound and I cringe for the day the"big one" hits Florida and ALL OF US get to chip in and pay for the rebuilding of strangers homes who had the power to coerce the FL legislature to get them artificially cheap rates. Citizens is effectively welfare for those who live in the coast.
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  9. MichaelJoeWilliamson
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    MichaelJoeWilliamson Well-Known Member

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    Yep
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  10. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Of course they anticipate the losses. But they pass those losses onto consumers as there is no pressure stopping the hospital from not doing this. I don't think hospitals are having financial difficulties due to the bankruptcies, they are just passing them on to the rest of us in higher healthcare provision costs.

    The costs from hospitals are absolutely growing exponentially out of control to account for these financial losses (for the non-profit hospitals) or to ensure that these losses don't threaten profit margins (for the for-profit hospitals). Take a look at what is happening to the charge to cost ratio for healthcare from 1996-2011.

    [​IMG]

    That ratio has almost doubled in 15 years. Profits are going up in the for-profit hospital industry, but not nearly at this rate. If anything, tort reform at the state level has hospitals more legally protected than they were 15 years ago. So the only reasonable explanation is that hospitals are looking at the bankruptcy rate, and all the costs to the hospital associated with it, and massively increasing the rates charged per dollar of procedure cost.
  11. DeanMeadGator
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    DeanMeadGator '63 Gator VIP Member

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    As to not sucking, pls advise why:

    1. Members of Congress decline to be covered by ObamaCare.

    2. The IRS does not want to be covered by ObamaCare.

    3. UPS will no longer provide coverage for spouses.

    4. The same is true of UVA.

    5. The majority of Americans do not want it.

    6. Some companies are hiring part-time employees to avoid having to pay what the projected costs will be.

    7. Some companies are considering paying the fines because it will be less expensive.

    8. Return to number 1.


    Anyone who is familiar with government programs knows that they are mismanaged, subject to fraud and never work the way they are supposed to.

    I trust my doctor and insurance provider. I do not want or trust the government to oversee my healthcare and have access to my medical records.

    Ask anyone in Canada how long it takes to get an appointment.
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  12. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Yep!

    But dangolegators would tell you the government "HAD" to step in to subsidize people who built in hig risk areas.

    :smoke:
  13. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Yep. Let the free market reign and begin to being down costs!
  14. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    Bam!

    "....down goes Fraz-uh..." :beat:

    (rep).
  15. 92gator
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    92gator Well-Known Member

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    ^^^caveat: I don't necessarily *trust* my insurance carrier, but I trust their anticipated reaction to their incentives (profit, value in their trade name) vis a vis competition, more so than I trust the political monopoly of Government, and their incentives (power/control/political gain), vis a vis lack of competition, lack of accountability, proven track record of fiscal irresponsiblity boardering on criminal (and their pandering to populist sentiment).
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  16. dangolegators
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    dangolegators Well-Known Member

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    I'd guess that well over half the population of Florida lives in coastal regions. The private insurers pulled out. No profit in it for them. Same deal as health insurance.
  17. gatordowneast
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    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

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    Actually it makes me more determined to attempt to turn the ship for the next generation and my kids and grandkids.
  18. mdgator05
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    mdgator05 Premium Member

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    Non-sequitur.

    You have not provided an argument for how that would happen. If I am a hospital corporation, you get rid of all regulations, I might decide to raise my profit (as I am a profit maximizing organization), but I see no reason why I would bother to lower prices unless the service becomes less valuable. That is the basic idea of an incredibly low elasticity of demand.

    The only reasons to lower prices are for increased competition or due to a high elasticity of demand, suggesting that any decrease in price will be made up by increased demand. With at best oligopolistic competition due to high fixed costs, competition won't force the price down considerably. And as I have said many times, the elasticity of demand is so incredibly low, that lowering the cost of most procedures will not increase the quantity demanded (if I lower the price of a chemo treatment from 25K to 20K, how many marginal consumers do you think there were that were willing to die at 25K but not so at 20K?).
  19. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    Good point.
  20. QGator2414
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    QGator2414 VIP Member

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    SMH!

    There is profit there in a free market. People do not build on the coast if they cannot afford the insurance and need it. Unfortunately statists, apparently like yourself, seem incapable of understanding this and prefer to put all the citizens of Florida at risk through ignorance or selfishness...

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