Conservatives Brace for the Possibility Obamacare Won't Totally Suck

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by gator996, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. g8orbill

    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    70,572
    Likes Received:
    4,431
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Clermont, Fl
    996 and his once or twice a month drive by's- he loves prezBO - nuff said
  2. dangolegators

    dangolegators Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    Messages:
    7,348
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Lets start from the premise that the goal is to have everyone in the US covered by health insurance. If this is the goal, then the private market failed to accomplish it, as there are many people who want insurance but are unable to obtain it.

    It doesn't sound like this is your goal however. It sounds like for you, the goal is for insurance companies to maximize their profits. So from your point of view, I suppose the private market didn't fail. But from a great many others', it has failed.
  3. g8orbill

    g8orbill Gators VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    70,572
    Likes Received:
    4,431
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Clermont, Fl
    So we wreck our current system once again for the exception- libbies and their effin rule by exception- if u use the number bandied about for how many are uninsured it is less than 15% of our population- really makes a lot of sense what the dems did doesn't it
  4. GatorFanCF

    GatorFanCF Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,928
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I don't buy the notion that with "universal coverage" the population will suddenly change its habits and we will be healthier. I remember in the 1980's Pru-Care in Orlando was supposed to be the "bomb" - allowing patients to go and see a physician for $20/visit. The original idea of the HMO/PPO was that the average folks would not wait to see a doctor but would go on regularly scheduled checkups to make sure their health was in order.....because the cost was so reasonable.

    How has that worked out? We (unfortunately) often take for granted our health and assume all is well and normal until we're coughing up blood or have a lump; well, you get the idea. The premise that with universal coverage the cost of medicine will go way down because we're catching the serious problems much earlier sounds great to the healthy, college-educated bureaucrat sitting at a desk refreshed after doing pilates on the lunch break; however, for the average Joe who is struggling to pay bills like gas to get to work (although we KNOW inflation isn't happening...HAH!) the cost of taking off work, spending the $35 to see the doctor and another $25 for some medicine can be daunting. Hence, the average Joe will not change his habits. Is there any proof that with the advent of HMO/PPO plans that the USA collectively has gotten healthier? I'm not aware of any. I do know that since the 1980's we continue to consume more and worse types of food and are getting more obese. Sometimes, things look good on paper but don't work in the real world. ACA doesn't even look good on paper.
  5. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    32,771
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Repped.
  6. dadx4

    dadx4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    29,179
    Likes Received:
    444
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Greenville SC
    It's already a disaster.
  7. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    32,771
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And they've added nearly 30,000 new pages of new taxes to that law/not law, guideline.
  8. JerseyGator01

    JerseyGator01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    15,120
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Obamacare will be good. This just in - water dry.
  9. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    32,771
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And weather is climate according to our resident Dems.
  10. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,640
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    For the outlier cases as you point out...Americans are good people and charities, doctors, communities and even big corporations can do a lot to help the in need.

    As to the healthcare I need. I absolutely do know what I need! Our family pays 100% of our healthcare expenses minus the few ridiculous mandated coverages like well visits and the such up to $10K/$20K in/out-network. Let's just say I have never met my deductible. Therefore all the ridiculous mandated coverages I do not need and pay for in my premiums is more than I need to pay for each year...
  11. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,640
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    It just gets better and better!

    Create a premise that insurance is suppose to cover everyone? It would be funny if not so ridiculous.

    My goal is to dismantle the quasi fascist system we have created with government and insurance companies and create a true free market!

    Preexisting conditions are a problem. They are not an insurance problem. Unfortunately many appear incapable of understanding this. And instead of helping a family member or friend in need continue to support a quasi fascist system that exerts force on others...

    :smoke:

    :smoke:
    Gatorrick22 likes this.
  12. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    32,771
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Rep.
  13. wargunfan

    wargunfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    4,567
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Inside your head.
    This is called "The Death Spiral" in the insurance industry. Young healthy folks will stay out as long as possible and the chronically sick will over utilize the system. The difference is that with ACA the tax payer is going to get the bill. Redistribution of wealth at its finest.
    Gatorrick22 likes this.
  14. baygator1

    baygator1 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,004
    Likes Received:
    1,437
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Speaking of fail, and right from the very beginning. The goal is to make health care more affordable for everyone, not have everyone insured.

    This will come as a shock, but private business is in business to make a profit. Your car dealer, your auto insurance provider, the gas station down on the corner, the sandwich shop and health insurance providers. I know it's hard for someone to understand who believes that everything should be able to run indefinitely on perpetual deficits and borrowed money.

    If there was a market segment (those with preexisting conditions) not being served, why didn't the government step in just for that market and serve as the insurer of last resort for that segment alone? Instead, we have a far more massive legislative and regulatory behemoth in Obamacare.
  15. mdgator05

    mdgator05 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    6,516
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Well then why did nobody help that person, as the specificity was for a reason (that was a real case)? I mean, the family tried, but they weren't finding $2 million laying around. None of the doctors agreed to do their job for free. Neither did the hospitals. Charities are typically oriented towards research, not towards treatment. But again, they were of no help. Frankly, there is absolutely no evidence that charities are capable of handling each of these individual cases.

    In reality, what happens is that people declare bankruptcy. They lose what their creditors can legally take. The remainder is passed onto the other customers, as healthcare has such a ridiculously low elasticity of demand as to allow the providers to pass through their costs. And the government ends up paying a huge amount in administering this system (through bankruptcy courts and such). This happens approximately 2 million times a year.

    As one of your brethren pointed out, insurance is not healthcare. It sounds like you feel that you have the insurance you need. However, you do not know what healthcare you will need. You know what you have used and what you think you will need. Hopefully, for your sake, you are right. But healthcare expenses are not for the years in which health is good. And for most families, there will come a time where health is not so good. At that point, what a person "needs" for healthcare explodes. And people stop being rational actors/consumers.
  16. dangolegators

    dangolegators Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    Messages:
    7,348
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Whether or not private insurance is 'supposed' to cover everyone is beside the point. The point is it doesn't. The point is that enough people favor the idea of near universal coverage that we elected leaders who implemented the idea. A private market solution failed materialize, so the public sector stepped in. That's how it works, and that's how it's 'supposed' to work.
  17. Gatorrick22

    Gatorrick22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    32,771
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wrong... that is the point with this boondoggle called Obama-scam.
  18. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,640
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Of course I don't know what healthcare I will need. But I prefer to pay for that service if I need it rather than an insurance company due to mandates. For the big stuff I have a catastrophic policy in case I unfortunately need it.

    I have no doubt that bankruptcies will not go away on a true free market. Many bankruptcies that occur from health expenses now are from those that have insurance. Some who are doing things right and fall on tough times. Others who because they have trouble being responsible. And in a true free market there will unfortunately be people who fall through the cracks just like there are now.

    But I want the patient and doctor back in control! And I definitely want to know if I get diagnosed with cancer like my aunt that I can start treatment the next day!
  19. QGator2414

    QGator2414 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,640
    Likes Received:
    145
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ocala
    Better and better it gets!

    A premise with no evidence the private sector failed that the public sector must step in.

    I am still waiting for the stories of thousands of people left to die before government began its massive intrusion into healthcare back in the 60's.
  20. gatordowneast

    gatordowneast Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,747
    Likes Received:
    303
    Trophy Points:
    83
    You just hit the proverbial nail on the head as did bill in an earlier post. ACA is nothing more than distribution of wealth and "legislation for the exception" as opposed to the majority.

    People forget, Demos were determined to cram up a bad bill up our a$$es as for 2 years they controlled house, senate and white house. This was their signature legislation. They were going to punish republicans for the Bush years. Statements like Nancy Pelosi's "you have to pass it to find out what is in it" are classic. And now that implementation time is here, the unions and other backers want out. And democratic legislators want the "bad stuff" affecting the most votes pushed back past the 2014 election.

Share This Page