Coach Muschamp and the Team: Building a Winner

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by philip214, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. toddsevans
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    toddsevans Gators3397 Premium Member

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    He took over a broken team left in shambles by Urban Meyer and our AD for letting him quit and then flounder back without coming back. It was a joke. This team will rebound and this loss will serve us well down the upcoming road. Mark it down all arm chair HB coaches and boy there is an abundance of them on this website. GO GATORS
  2. qwghlmgator
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    qwghlmgator Well-Known Member

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    1. The 2010 team was bereft of offensive talent outside of Rainey and Demps. The program was in freefall and you can deny it all you want but you're wrong - and nearly alone in your assessment. Certainly the NFL hasn't thought much of the talent on the 2010 - 2011 teams. Muschamp inherited a fractured team with no talent at WR. Very limited talent at OL. And precious little at RB outside of guys that were not able to get yards in a Pro Set offense. If those teams were so talented where were those talented players? Name them.

    2. Spurrier was/is a fantastic coach. But he will be the first to tell you he inherited a much better team than Muschamp. Still, his second team didn't accomplish as much as Champ's even though the SEC is much stronger now. His third team wasn't as good as this one is, even with a two-time SEC Player of the Year at QB and UF's future all-time rushing leader at RB. So what's your point there? That Champ should do at least as well as SOS? He clearly has.

    3. There is no "fascination" with Bama. The comparison was made not because Champ holds Bama's model as the only way to win - but because he shares a coaching outlook and philosophy with his coaching mentor. Who happens to coach at Bama. He didn't pick Bama out of a hat or see them on TV one day and say, "Hey, I wanna play like those guys." Playing that way is his coaching DNA. And he's clearly building to that level quickly - he just didn't have the Mark Ingrams that Shula left behind to build on.

    4. The coverage on scUM's first TD was sound with the db playing inside leverage. Morris made a beautiful throw. If anything it was on the DL for not getting in Morris' face and disrupting the throw. As for the second TD, Muschamp said it was on a play they run a lot and that we had practiced stopping over and over again during the week. The problem? A redshirt freshman safety overran the play. Pure and simple. Again, any kind of pressure from the D line would've made that throw a lot more difficult. Is that crappy coaching or is it poor execution?

    5. A team that had among the fewest turnovers in the nation last year is "not disciplined in any aspect of the game??" Really, dude? Not even the top 5 defense? Not even a defense that after early struggles was brought as a group to the sidelines and coached up enough that they shut down one of the nation's top offenses for three quarters. Or did Miami just stop trying to move the ball? :roll:

    Why is it that I get the feeling you were on some internet board in 2007 talking about how Meyer and Mullen were failures and needed to be fired?:whistle:
  3. Ofg8r
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    Ofg8r Active Member

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    I just wonder why, or how, so many definite conclusions are drawn from a five turnover game, which was lost by 5 points. I will withhold judgement until the SEC season ends.

    I am very frustrated; I was a little sick to my stomach yesterday. There were play calls that I did not understand, but I was not in the head of the OC, and don't really have the expertise to second guess him. I draw only a couple of hard and fast conclusions from that game. 1. They have got to quit losing so many Olinemen to injury. Don't ask me how. 2. They have got to drill it into Driskel's head to get rid of the damn ball when the play isn't there. .

    One nice thing about moving to SoCal last year; after seeing half the population wearing USC paraphernalia all off-season, I really enjoyed the telecast last night and picked up the paper this morning and read that fans were chanting "Fire Kiffen" during the game, and the press is on him like stink.. Everything isn't nearly as bleak. I did not say a word to my USC loving Socal family.
  4. msa3
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    msa3 Premium Member

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    Dude, read a thread before you comment. Almost everything you've said of my post has been pulled out of context.

    The OP said the way to build a National Power was to do it like Bama, with power and smash mouth and whatever. I explained that other programs have had Bama-like runs without doing it the Saban way. One of them was Spurrier. One of them was Meyer. One of them was Carroll at USC. That's how I mentioned Spurrier in this context, and then responded to him saying SOS was done in his last years at UF, when he won the SEC in 2000 and almost played for the title in 2001. Nowhere did I compare what Spurrier accomplished to what WM accomplished. Nowhere. For the record, SOS won the SEC in his second season and went undefeated in conference. His first he had the best record in the SEC. His third year he won the east. And as you say the SEC was down, well, Bama won the title that year. But whatever.

    As for discipline -- last year we were 122nd in penalties per game. So far this year we're 117th. We did well on turnovers last year, not so great this year so far. That's discipline.
  5. rjp4u
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    rjp4u Member

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    My thoughts...

    I just saw the replay on ESPN and I have a few thoughts:

    1. We run the RB straight up the middle from several formations. Not fooling anyone.
    2. This offense is boring. Sorry, it is. Boring won't put people in the stands and it won't bring money to the University. Just stating a fact.
    3. Not going to bash an 18-21 year old kid. It was tough to see their pain in some of the post game interviews. Thanks guys.
    4. Why at the end of a game are we huddling? Do we have a no huddle? Time is running out! Embarrassing.
    5. Defense line played great. We have the most feared front four in college football and I hope they can get better than the chic-filet bowl in Atlanta.
    6. Vernon Hargreaves III needs to start, I don't care who's feelings you hurt. The most talented freshman I have seen in a long time. A true game-changing playmaker.
    7. I hope Demarcus Robinson and Ahmad Fullwood will get to play more. At this rate we will produce the best blocking wide-receivers in NFL history. Hang in there guys.
    8. I hate the stupid two point conversion thing. It killed momentum and Will being stubborn about it is just plain dumb. Kick the stupid extra point until you need to do a two point conversion. Excuses about how it should have worked are bull-headed proud statements. Kick the extra point!
    9. Though we hadn't played them in years, I am reminded that I still hate Miami football. Cannot believe they got only 10 first downs and beat us. Still bothers me!
    10. I'm sure I'll get bashed for one or more of these, that's what forums are for. Don't shoot the messenger.
  6. philip214
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    philip214 VIP Member

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    Again, at this time, that is the way you build a program to compete consistently at a national level. This sec is much different than the 90s sec teams. Spurrier has been done for some time. Despite being picked to win his division, he consistently blows it and appears to have done it again this year. He has 0, zero, sec titles since he left Florida. His team gave up 40 plus points and there is infighting. He is not the answer. He is done. This is as blatant as can be. What is he averaging 4 losses a year at usce? That's awesome! I want no part of that. We just went 11 and 1 in the regular season last year and beat spurrier with a team in transformation. I'd say that is pretty damn good.
  7. socraticsilence
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    socraticsilence New Member

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    This loss will help UF more than you can ever know?
  8. gatorlaw71
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    gatorlaw71 Well-Known Member

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    SOS inherited a great defense but no offense in 1990. The 1989 team was horrible offensively even though it had Emmit Smith, who turned pro and never played for SOS. He inherited a team that had no QB, no receivers, had lost its only offensive threat, and couldn't throw the ball at all. He turned it into a juggernaut offense. He took a QB buried way down on the depth chart and made him all-SEC. He finished with the best record in the league and was denied the official SEC championship only by a probation imposed after the fact because of an offense from the Galen Hall era.

    SOS's second team, 1991, won the SEC for the first time and played in the Sugar Bowl. They lost one regular season game and were close playing for the MNC against Miami until Miami opted for the Orange Bowl. We had a disastrous series of injuries to the first and second team DL leading up to and during the game against Notre Dame. In the second half, there were players on the DL whom I hadn't seen play all year. When you say that 1991 team didn't accomplish as much as Muschamps second team, I can only assume winning the SEC Championship, and beating Georgia on the way, means nothing to you.

    SOS's third team lost a lot of defensive players and OL to graduation. That was a rebuilding year. They still won the SEC East and almost beat eventual national champion Alabama in the first-even SEC Championship game. That 1992 team had less talent than this one, but it was a better team because, and this is not an insult to Muschamp, SOS is a better coach. Muschamp's team this year won't win the East.

    All of those SOS teams beat Georgia. Muschamp hasn't beaten Georgia yet. We'll see if he will this year. Based on what we've seen so far, I doubt it.
  9. socraticsilence
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    socraticsilence New Member

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    The Bama way is not the only way and besides we can't use the Bama model-- we can't oversign to avoid mistakes in recruting, we can't play low penalty football (which you have to do if you don't get big plays and we don't playing this boring freaking Big 10 style), etc. and let's be real if Spurrier is done Muschamp has never gotten started they both won 11 games last season, but Spurrier won more in 2011 and will win more in 2013.
  10. gatorlaw71
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    gatorlaw71 Well-Known Member

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    SOS inherited a great defense but no offense in 1990. The 1989 team was horrible offensively even though it had Emmit Smith, who turned pro and never played for SOS. He inherited a team that had no QB, no receivers, had lost its only offensive threat, and couldn't throw the ball at all. He turned it into a juggernaut offense. He took a QB buried way down on the depth chart and made him all-SEC. He finished with the best record in the league and was denied the official SEC championship only by a probation imposed after the fact because of an offense from the Galen Hall era.

    SOS's second team, 1991, won the SEC for the first time and played in the Sugar Bowl. They lost one regular season game and were close playing for the MNC against Miami until Miami opted for the Orange Bowl. We had a disastrous series of injuries to the first and second team DL leading up to and during the game against Notre Dame. In the second half, there were players on the DL whom I hadn't seen play all year. When you say that 1991 team didn't accomplish as much as Muschamps second team, I can only assume winning the SEC Championship, and beating Georgia on the way, means nothing to you.

    SOS's third team lost a lot of defensive players and OL to graduation. That was a rebuilding year. They still won the SEC East and almost beat eventual national champion Alabama in the first-even SEC Championship game. That 1992 team had less talent than this one, but it was a better team because, and this is not an insult to Muschamp, SOS is a better coach. Muschamp's team this year won't win the East.

    All of those SOS teams beat Georgia. Muschamp hasn't beaten Georgia yet. We'll see if he will this year. Based on what we've seen so far, I doubt it.
  11. socraticsilence
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    socraticsilence New Member

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    really, if "finesse" doesn't work how did TAMU win as many games as we did last year, how did Auburn and us win National titles?
  12. gymgator
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    gymgator Well-Known Member

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    The flaw is the game plan is to 'just win'. This results in...when things go wrong...not being able to handle it. The 'just win' plan is to run the ball, play great D and win every game 6-3.

    When that doesn't happen, what do you do. You get an O that never looks comfortable. Never looks like they are attacking the D. Without the turnovers, Driskel had decent day, but if the game plan was to try and score 50 every game, Driskel might have looked like...this is what we do and not chicken with it's head cut off. He made some great plays, so I know there is potential, but I do not see anything that shows me that potential is attempting to be developed into an Offensive juggernut. We play to just barely win. It worked 11x last year. It won't work this year.
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  13. socraticsilence
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    socraticsilence New Member

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    we had that kind of team last year-- we gave up almost 40 to Louisville.
  14. philip214
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    philip214 VIP Member

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    I don't worry too much about that one. We were done. We were going for a national championship game not in the middle of an sec schedule. That was Louisville's championship and our guys were checking out to the nfl.

    We went 11 and 1 during the regular season and beat spurrier in our transition year when he was supposed to be the team in the sec east. Guess what? His team choked again.
  15. philip214
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    philip214 VIP Member

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    Go root for spurrier and change teams. Enjoy and celebrate 4 loss seasons, but your offense will be far more exciting. I'll take muschamp at this time anyday.

    Our recruiting is very good. He is building our team from the mess that was left behind. He is changing the philosophy which will be geared toward more consistency and bringing in the better talent consistently. Meyer struggled at the end bringing in big nfl type Wrs. We are just starting to bring these type of players in now.
  16. gator07
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    gator07 Well-Known Member

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    The definite conclusion that can be drawn is that we are just wildly inconsistent, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

    In WM's tenure (I really am not even counting 2011) we have played great offense in a couple of games, average offense in a handful of games, then just outright stinkers in several others. Last year we were serviceable to great even in about 7 games, but mediocre to downright lousy in the other 6. This year we have had one serviceable outing and one horrific outing.

    So that means about 50% of the time our offense will play at least ok and will contribute to the effort and not kill us, but the other half the offense might just be so atrocious that they either cost us the game or struggle so mightily that we are in danger of losing a game we have no business losing. How are you supposed to expect to win week to week playing like that? (Honestly, last year was a miracle).

    So far the OL has looked much improved, especially in pass protection. The WRs look like night and day, they look great to me. The play-calling seems fine. As for the play design, Pease seems to have every trick in the book in the run game, so I would think he can draw up decent routes in the passing game as well (but thats hard to judge on TV). So that leaves the one obvious thing: inconsistent QB play. We will go as he goes. I would add in the penalties but those have been quite consistent every single week just about.
  17. gtr2x
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    gtr2x Well-Known Member

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    Bama has had a lot of recent success, but their continued reverence is getting old, not to mention it is pretty hard to beat the king at his own game. There are a lot of different ways to win, but how about just winning the gators way. We have plenty of great examples in our history.

    If you like smash mouth football, The Pell era Gators of the Mid 80s dominated opponents by playing great defense, running the ball and executing a solid down field passing game. That comparison works fine for me, I don't need any Saban references.
  18. GuamGator
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    GuamGator New Member

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    Some problems that I feel exist are that: Muschamp and the team are not driven enough. Championship teams develop when they desire to crush their opponents in every game. It is not running up the score to gain as many points as possible, it is ensuring victory. It is part of the killer spirit that conveys that you are unstoppable. It also is very popular with the fans. The coaches are underestimating the importance of keeping the fans happy.
    If you watch the team under Urban Meyer (I really mean to say the offense under Dan Mullen) we were cautious then as well, but only when we were in danger. The safer we became the more chances we were able to take, and we did. The beginning of the game we would start slow and relatively safe. Once we started getting ahead in points we would really pour it on. If you have a lead the playbook is wide open. I do not see that mentality here. It seems to be even more conservative play calling once there is a lead. That allows opposing teams to catch back up.
    The Toledo game was a great example of being in a position to score at the end of the game and an active decision was made not to. I do not see it as being classy. I see it as a lack of the dominating mindset. It also leaves the fans with a bit of a let down. And when a disaster like Miami happens it really comes back to haunt you. The frustrations that have built up are then vented.
    Muschamp also wasted our time by ranting about a mistaken report that a player was suspended who was not really suspended. It is not really a big deal. A mistake was made and could be clarified. He specifically mentioned this website and threatened to block all access. This website is devoted to the team and many devoted fans use this website as a valuable source of information. He might as well have stood in the center of the field at halftime and admonished the fans for their love of the team and told them that he would lock them out of the rest of this seasons games.
    Muschamp is being tolerated right now. The style of play is dull and unexciting. As long as we win that is minimally acceptable. Every loss brings howls of disdain. The defense is great. The offense needs serious help. This offense has been unable to produce since Addazio was the offensive coordinator. I dont really see a lack of a passing game as a pro-style offense. The rule changes over the years has made the NFL a passing party. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, these guys are playing in a pro-style offense.
    There is no excuse for a loss after dominating Miami so completely.
    I will now make a controversial statement. It seems that if we played more like Georgia or Clemson, with a real passing game, the fans would tolerate losses more than they do now. If we saw an exciting game and lost, we could go home fulfilled. 10-2 or even 9-3 would probably not generate the same amount of anger that 11-1 does now. Because we know that the current system leaves us very vulnerable. We saw the Georgia turnover fest last year and then the Lousiville disaster. This past week in Miami was Georgia part 2. So every additional loss now becomes another part of the pattern. A pattern of losses that is due to a horrible offense. An offensive line that cant protect the quarterback, a quarterback that has no peripheral vision (resulting in sacks, and fumbles), a quarterback that does not appear able to read defenses, a quarterback that throws into coverage rather than hitting open receivers, receivers that drop too many passes, running backs that cant block, highly rated tight ends that we never see play(why were they rated so highly? why were they recruited?), etc....
    The losses that should have not have been losses are very painful, especially when they are to a rival such as Miami, FSU, Georgia. The cause everyone to ask why it happened. And all the weak areas come to light.
    We want to win. How we win DOES matter. We want to dominate. We want to win like we did with Percy Harvin. We smashed all the teams could. We did not let up. The foot was on the gas the whole time. This is what makes a satisfying performance. This is why Oregon is great to watch. Squeaking by with a one point win may happen, but it is not comfortable and not as fun as winning by 40 points. Especially when the opponent is a god team.
    Lets hope for the best, but I fear that many teams we will play have learned how to defeat us.
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  19. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    People do not understand that our offense, by design, leads to close games. Close games, by definition, are coin flips on who wins.

    So it's simple math. 12 games. Lets say on average 3 of them are virtually locks to win.

    That means we have 9 close game coin flips. Some we will be favored and some not. On average 50/50.

    That equals an average of 4.5 losses per year. Even if you buy into a theory that somehow we are better in close games, which no evidence exists, then perhaps you can expect 3 to 4 losses.

    Last year we got crazy fortunate and the stars aligned. Guess what though? We still won nothing of importance.

    Is that good enough? Not a chance.
  20. ovillegator
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    ovillegator VIP Member

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    You are right. Not good enough for the Gator Nation.

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