Coach Muschamp and the Team: Building a Winner

Discussion in 'RayGator's Swamp Gas' started by philip214, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. philip214
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    philip214 VIP Member

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    Now after the emotion of the game as subsided some, I understand that Muschamp has only been here two years and is in the process of transforming this team into a consistent National threat. We are obviously not there yet, but we are building a team similar to Alabama. We are very short in some areas though particularly:

    1) OL play---very inconsistent. We need to amp up the recruiting on the OL. Some guys are good, some guys should not be starting, and the depth is not there. This OL is nowhere close to where Alabama was last year. This is one area of weakness.

    2) TE. In a prostyle offense a TE is key. On that 4th and 1 when Miami packed the middle, the play was play action and quick hit to the TE or TE on an out and the QB has the option to run or pass.

    3) The big WR as in big, tall, possession guy. We dont have him yet. He may be on our team, but does not appear ready at this time to be the man.

    4) The QB who is a game manager and does not make mistakes. We don't need a stud, just a smart QB who will limit mistakes and make good decisions.

    Our defense is there, but our offense needs some help and particularly at the positions above. Muschamp has had to overall this offense completely from a spread to prostyle and completely change the mindset of this team. He is doing it, but we appear to still be in transformation and suffering from some growing pains. The recruiting needs to pick up at the positions above though, and the development of these players needs to be addressed.

    I am willing to give our head coach a chance, and truly believe he has the right vision for our consistent success, but there are glaring holes at this time.
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  2. insuragator
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    insuragator Well-Known Member

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  3. TampaGatorFan
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    Yup...that's why I'm not going to cry too much over this loss...we weren't sniffing a NC this year, anyway. I'm thinking Outback Bowl.
  4. msa3
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    msa3 Premium Member

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    What do you base this on? I hope you're right, but there are a couple of problems with what you're saying.

    1) UF was fundamentally a national power when he took over. It didn't need to be built. This isn't Nebraska, caught in the boring middle of nowhere and a decade removed from relevance. UF won 13 games in 2009 -- 2010 was a "bad" year, but he didn't take over Vanderbilt. There's no winning tradition that has to be built -- it has been around for two decades, if not longer. The facilities are in place, the fan base is in place, the reputation is in place. WM doesn't have to convince recruits that UF "can" be a place where they can win -- it already has been a place where they can win.

    2) why do you assume the way to build a power is the way Bama did it? Both Spurrier and Meyer had systems that were every bit as dominant as Bama (or Miami, or FSU, or USCw) that were not hinged on anything Sabanistic.

    3) This is his third year. If he needed those kinds of players, he should have recruited them; they'd be juniors and sophomores now. But maybe he can't find them -- that leads to

    4) High school coaches like to keep their jobs. Keeping their jobs requires winning. I don't love spread offenses, but that is where the evolution of football is headed. High school coaches have learned that the best way to win is to put their best athlete at QB and let him do his thing. So there will be more spread type QBs than traditional drop-backs available top recruit. And those guys will not want to go to a school that is going to wrap them up to the level that WM has wanted them wrapped up. If WM lands one of those kids anyway, they'll be frustrated with the system. And future 5* QBs will stay away because they don't like the style. The 5* WRs will stay away because there won't be 5* QBs throwing to them, and because the offense isn't going to let them show off their talents. (there will always be exceptions, but it's a small group, and you're competing with everyone who runs "pro-set" for an increasingly small group of talent, so recruiting the very best of them them becomes much more difficult)

    5) As players become bigger and faster, the field becomes smaller. It's why you see few off-tackle running based teams in the NFL -- you just can't consistently run for four yards a carry against equal talent anymore. Bama can do it because almost no one has their level of talent. But if you're counting on reaching that talent level -- and competing with them for their recruits -- in order to master success, then it's likely to be a long and frustrating wait.

    So I think your premise is flawed on a lot of levels. UF doesn't need to be built into a national power -- it is already one. The way WM wants to win isn't a guarantor of success, and it's counter to the way football is headed.
  5. T3goalie
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    T3goalie VIP Member

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    I have been to both games and i do not think Will is building a winner. In fact, i think we are headed for a very long season if things do not change PDQ.

    1) His defense is stellar when they know where to line up. 1st TD- UM had the ball at the 8 and Riggs was lined up 10 yards off the LOS in the end zone. It was right in front of us and people in the stands near us were wondering out loud what the hell is the DC thinking before the snap. That was the time to call timeout. 2nd touchdown- defense was lined up 15 friggin yards off of the receiver. Sitting in the endzone fairly high up you could see that the thing was going to open up like the RED SEA for Moses. 3rd TD- We have a stellar DE covering a tight end that leads to a penalty and a walk in. These are coaching and scheme issues. For Muschamp to say that the D didn't play friggin great is ludicrous. The were smothering. The TDs were coaching and scheme issues from a newly minted DC. Overall , UF's D is insanely talented and played incredible.

    2) The offense is brutal to watch. Running Jones and Brown into an 7-8 man front only does 2 things- i] it creates down and distance problems all day long, and 2] it wears out the OL to a point of exhaustion and injury. It is flat out Stupid. Showers had explosive plays and disapeared. The 3 back diamond formation is the only thing that JD looks comfortable running and it was effective. He is horrendous from the pocket. This offensive design is as DUMB as Addazio running the option with Brantley. The Burton wildcat is now beyond the pale. UM's went to an effective 11 man front on that play. There was not 1 person in the stadium who didn't know what was coming, ie Burton on the keeper.

    3) To build a winner in anything, you must adapt, be flexible and understand the environment and strengths and weaknesses of personnell. Mushchamp is mule headed. He wants to run an offense one way, hell of high water. Unfortunately he seems to be more like Mack Brown at UT, than Nick saban. If it continues, we will have similar results and lose 4-5 more games. The Defense can't beat uga, Tenn, fsu, usc, lsu on its own, it will run thread bare and at some point cause a division on the team.

    It is a crying shame that Muschamp appears to tunnel visioned to see what is going on. If yesterday's outcome had not been such a bummer, it would have been silly.:sad:
  6. samit23
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    samit23 Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't disagree with you anymore. Muschamp is building one of theist physically complete teams in CFB. Yes, yesterday was a setback. But your analysis couldn't be more off of the mark of what t takes to build a winning program in a number of respects:

    1. You must run into 8 man fronts to be successful in football. I you can't do that then you will be limited to playing for ACC titles.

    2. Great coaches must stay true to their philosophy. You don't hear Saban get up every week and say that "we must be flexible." No he says "we must be committed to the process."

    Coach Muschamp's commitment to his process, philosophy and game plans will continue to win a great deal of games for Florida. If he continues to stick with his philosophy we will win big an I believe we will have a chance to win the East in Columbia in November.

    Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry
  7. T3goalie
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    I understand your point of view. But we clearly disagree. Being able to do something, wanting to do something, and having the ability to do something are very different things. You never intentionally play to your weaknesses of personnel and to your opponents strengths. Lining up 5 to block 7/8 is predictably ineficient.

    Muschamp believes that football is the game of attrition similar to trench warfare of WWI. Unfortueately for him, he has never read "All quiet on the Western Front" to understand that attrition is a 2 way street. His game of attrition is gutting his team of opportunities and personnell. OL are dropping like flies. Game planning for UF's O is easy. Load the box, run blitz, play man outside. Seeing is believing and you will know this to be true long before Novemeber in my opinion. By the way, i wish you were right.
  8. swangator
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    swangator Active Member

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    Very well said. Agree completely.
  9. gator1986
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    Muschamp is not Saban... Not close
  10. KronoGator
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    KronoGator Well-Known Member

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    This.
  11. grumpy_gator
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    grumpy_gator New Member

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    I think too much emphasis is put on SOS's System or Meyer's System vs WM's System.

    The fact is, the best teams of SOS and Meyer had dominant defenses, great OLine's and good to great running games.

    Watching Meyer's Offense post-Tebow (and post Harvin, Murphy, Hernandez) convinced me that his "system" was NOT going to be able to compete consistently with Bama Ball.
  12. philip214
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    philip214 VIP Member

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    To your first point, Florida was a mess when muschamp took over. So much of a mess that led Meyer to say Florida was a "broken" program. The last two meyer years were a mess. Now we had some talent on this team but it was the inmates running the asylum. The toughness and team had been fractured. Muschamp further had to overhaul the offense and turn them into big, tougher, more physical team. He is still working on that now. I am so sick of the Steve spurrier argument. He took this program to a level, yes, but he was done in his later years here. He became even more stubborn and his recruiting fell off. Oh by the way, your spurrier lost yesterday and has never won the sec after Florida. I don't want to see our defense give up 40 plus points and that's what spurrier's team did yesterday. Meyer took our program to even higher levels, but again his last few years were a mess.
    Why is alabama's philosophy the best? Because they have proven they win consistently. They don't have an off year. They are consistent. They win with physical and disciplined football. No gimmicks. No finesse passing all over the field offense. A line up, smash you in the mouth offense. They recruit consistently and are a machine. They have the program every team should emulate and they are doing it playing in a tough conference. Muschamp sees this and understands this. I completely agree with this approach at this time.
    This is his third year and it just started. It hasn't started good but even with all of our turnovers, we were one play away from winning. One play. Granted I don't think Miami is a great team, but they are a rival. These types of games are usually hard fought, tough games.
    Will muschamp inherited driskel. He hasn't brought in his qb yet although he is on his way. He also inherited a very finesse Ol. He is building it. I don't know what else to say and the biggest proof I have is he took a team still in transformation and was a Norte dame loss to USC from going to the national title game. That's all you can ask for. A chance at the end to go to the big game.
    His vision and philosophy is perfect. We are getting there but again still in this awkward transformation. Give the man a chance.
  13. raquetclub
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    Bama's style works, but Oregon with our defense would still clobber people the way 2008 Florida did.
  14. philip214
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    philip214 VIP Member

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    Oregon works in their conference but don't know how good they would be in the sec. Once you start playing the tough, physical, smash you in the mouth teams those more finesse teams falter.

    Our offense absolutely has to be better, but it doesn't need to change much other than to toughen up the Ol, bring in a solid te, and get a qb in there who can manage a game and not turn it over.

    The other area we need to improve and this is on the coach is discipline.
  15. ThePlayer
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    At least Phil Fulmer attracted 5* Olinemen to his power running program in the 1990's.
    Not-to-mention all the skilled big running backs and tall wide receivers on top of them.
    But I don't see those type of recruits coming here, so a simple question needs to be asked.
    Who wants to play for a coach who doesn't know what he's doing on offense?

    God help Will Grier....he'll sit on the bench next to KT until our brain trust has an epiphany.
  16. Hill_Raiser
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    People keep saying that we are building an "Alabama-type" program, but Will is not Saban. Within 3 years, Saban took over a program from Mike Freaking Shula and had a team so tough that he sent Urban to the hospital and all the way to the Big 10.

    Yesterday was an interesting litmus test. In equal time, Al Golden has done more with less than Muschamp has.
  17. msa3
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    This is just wrong. In 2009, UF won 13 games and finished second in the country. In 2010, the wheels came off, but even wheel-less they won eight games and the bowl. There may have been jerks on the team, but the only evidence of it being "broken" is UM saying so. They weren't the kind of players WM wanted, but that doesn't mean it was broken, just not the team he wanted. Perhaps he should have modified his philosophy to adapt to who he had. Perhaps not.

    As for SOS, They won the SEC in 2000. His last year as coach they were within a play or two (or a non-rescheduled Sept. 11 game) from playing for the championship. Of course he's never won the SEC at South Carolina -- IT'S SOUTH CAROLINA. A tiny little state with no tradition. So while you may be tired of the Spurrier crap, it's only because you've not done the research to actually understand what happened.

    I understand the fascination with Bama because they've been great. But aside from 2009, they've also been lucky to get their titles. They haven't run the table as an unstoppable juggernaut -- they're very, very good, but beatable. And offensively, they're not afraid to throw the ball. They don't always do it, but they aren't afraid of their own offense -- they've coached their players well enough so the have confidence in them. Our coaching staff cannot say the same thing.

    What exactly do you mean by this? Someone who just hands off all the time? Someone who always completes his passes? How is he going to do that if they're only throwing in long-yardage situations? More than that, where are you gonna find him? Do you think Matt Saracen has eligibility left?

    Auburn ran the table with an up-tempo offense, even coming from behind to beat ... (gasp) Alabama.

    You are right that Alabama has a successful program, but it's much less because of the style of offense they run as the way they are coached. They don't make many mistakes; they don't make many penalties. They don't turn the ball over very much. They are extremely disciplined. UF is not -- even after three off seasons and two full seasons, UF is not disciplined in any aspect of the game. That's a part of coaching, too.
  18. philip214
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    I agree with you on discipline. That is on the coach and needs to improve. I am critical of coaches but I believe muschamp has earned time to implement his players and system by his recruiting and an excellent year last year including beating spurrier.
    Stop with south Carolina being south Carolina. He chose to go there. He hasn't won the sec. His team gave up over 40 points yesterday and he had coaches almost brawling on the sideline. I don't want that type of team here at Florida. You win with defense first. Our offense obviously needs to improve.
    You want to see very good college qb game managers look at Mccarron and the qb before him. Nothing flashy or special but they don't commit turnovers. You can't have a qb fumbling and throwing picks all the time.
  19. DieAGator
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    2.8 yard per attempt rushing(44), 8.8 per attempt passing(33). It seems like Coach Muschamp is determined to run no matter what. Somehow it seems like he's determined to do it the hard way.
  20. samit23
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    There were opportunities all over the field yesterday as a result of Muschamp's game plan. 40 plays in + territory with 6 possessions in the redzone. The results were not good but the opportunities were there. As for the his gameplay gutting his team of personnel I have never heard of a game plan in football designed to prevent injuries. You create depth for this very reason, to win the war of attrition.

    Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

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