Church nativity scene displays bleeding Trayvon

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by JerseyGator01, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. lacuna

    lacuna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Gainesville
    Ratings Received:
    +715
    I agree, jdr. That kind of literal interpretation is reminiscent of pharisaical rigidity allowing little room for the spirit to fully manifest its intent. The display should be prayerfully viewed with an open heart and mind.
  2. chemgator

    chemgator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,488
    Likes Received:
    200
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +963
    Trayvon Martin was not a peacemaker. He is as guilty as Zimmerman for the violence that took his life, if not more so. If you show Martin, why not show Zimmerman lying with his head against the curb bleeding? Was that "good" violence, and the shooting bad violence?
  3. asuragator

    asuragator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    20,536
    Likes Received:
    4,089
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +6,080
    So you know for a fact that Zimmerman didn't attack Martin first and that Martin wasn't acting in self-defense? Zimmerman's injuries could be the result of Martin getting the upper hand in defense of himself.
  4. lacuna

    lacuna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Gainesville
    Ratings Received:
    +715
    No one is claiming Martin was a peacemaker. He was, however a victim of violence. And yes, to head off your anticipated objection that he was a "victim", he did indeed make violent actions that contributed to his own death.

    Why not show Zimmerman? Zimmerman is still alive and kicking. In the artist's mind Martin represents countless victims of violence.

    [​IMG]
    • Like Like x 1
  5. gator7_5

    gator7_5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    12,565
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +681
    Who are you to say what a church can or cant display? If they can get idiots to support it when the offertory dish comes around, who cares?
  6. Gatormb

    Gatormb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,875
    Likes Received:
    258
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Bradenton, Fl
    Ratings Received:
    +812
    You're kidding right? Matthew, Mark and John never met Jesus? Sound the alarm for an unbelievable post. As for Luke, a historian, physician and companion to Paul:

    The Gospel According to Luke (Greek: Τὸ κατὰ Λουκᾶν εὐαγγέλιον, to kata Loukan euangelion), commonly shortened to the Gospel of Luke or simply Luke, is the third and longest of the four Gospels. This synoptic gospel is an account of the life and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth. It details his story from the events of his birth to his Ascension.

    According to the preface,[1] the purpose of Luke is to write a historical account,[2] while bringing out the theological significance of the history.[3] The writer divides history into three stages: The first ends with John the Baptist, the second consists of Jesus' earthly ministry, and the third is the life of the church after Jesus' resurrection.[4] The author attests that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
  7. chompalot

    chompalot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,041
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +337
    This is a transcript from Frontline on the gospels. I watched it the other night and thought it was interesting.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/gospels.html

    And here is another link from Frontline on the gospel:
    An Introduction to the Gospels
    Written over the course of almost a century after Jesus' death, the four gospels of the New Testament, though they tell the same story, reflect very different ideas and concerns.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/mmfour.html
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
  8. Gatormb

    Gatormb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,875
    Likes Received:
    258
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Bradenton, Fl
    Ratings Received:
    +812
    I did not mean to say that there are no metaphors in the Bible. It's loaded with them. The point I was trying to make was that Jesus is the only way to the Father is not a metaphor. All religions can be wrong but they all can't be right because each contradicts the other despite what Lacuna wants to believe. Jesus claims to be the ONLY way to the Father (Heaven).

    To suggest that those who record this as not knowing Jesus, not you but wgb, (and agreeing with that comment) is......well.....(shakes head).
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. chompalot

    chompalot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,041
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +337
  10. asuragator

    asuragator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    20,536
    Likes Received:
    4,089
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +6,080
    I hear you.

    True enough about religions, the question is which one is right and who is really to say as religions are human constructions.
  11. MichiGator2002

    MichiGator2002 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    15,757
    Likes Received:
    422
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,824
    We'll have this post of you taking pains to try to discredit the Gospel next time you feel like waxing pious about Pope Francis.
  12. lacuna

    lacuna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Gainesville
    Ratings Received:
    +715
    Bill, did you miss this?
  13. lacuna

    lacuna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Gainesville
    Ratings Received:
    +715
    Lacuna "wants to believe" very little. She rejects dogma and holds her beliefs few and lightly. She does believe, however, there are commonalities to be found in most religions and a great many followers of all religious traditions have a misguided self righteous and exclusionary sense that their religion is the only correct one.

    The gospel of John records Jesus as saying he is 'the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but by me.' Verily and truthfully, lacuna believes it is likely Jesus never made that 'claim' or spoke words to that effect even though the author of John records him speaking them. John's gospel is not a synoptic like the other 3. It has a different message to convey and is esoteric and highly symbolic. No, Jesus wasn't a liar, nor a lunatic. Lacuna believes Jesus is messiah and master. The Greek word for 'master' is kurios and is also translated as 'lord.' Just as adonai in the Hebrew is similarly translated as 'master' as well as 'lord.'

    The Hebrew for LORD is not 'master - it is YHVH - the ineffable name of God. There is a distinct difference between lord and LORD in the Tanakh. Lacuna believes it is a grave mistake to conflate the 'master' Jesus of the New Testament with the LORD (God) of the Old.
  14. lacuna

    lacuna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    324
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Gainesville
    Ratings Received:
    +715
  15. The_Graygator

    The_Graygator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2007
    Messages:
    35,184
    Likes Received:
    421
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings Received:
    +1,525

    Nowhere. They're all about shock value and slogans. Nothing of any value behind them, but they still use them with expertise and the ignorant masses still soak them up like the brain-dead lemmings they are.
  16. asuragator

    asuragator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    20,536
    Likes Received:
    4,089
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +6,080
    Is there anything you post that is not some deliberately vile disparagement of those who don't share your political views?
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
  17. Gatormb

    Gatormb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,875
    Likes Received:
    258
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Bradenton, Fl
    Ratings Received:
    +812
    That's where you need to read my link in the other thread. Leaves no doubt (in many opinions) the Bible is inspired (history, prophecy, science before it's time, etc.) and unlike ANY other religious writing.

    For example Hindu writings purport that the earth is flat, floating in the cosmos on the backs of giant turtles!

    I'll see if i can find it again. You owe it to yourself to check it out.
  18. Gatormb

    Gatormb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,875
    Likes Received:
    258
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Bradenton, Fl
    Ratings Received:
    +812
    AHA, jrd. Found it.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html

    Small part.

    There are both internal and external evidences that the Bible is truly God’s Word. The internal evidences are those things within the Bible that testify of its divine origin. One of the first internal evidences that the Bible is truly God’s Word is seen in its unity. Even though it is really sixty-six individual books, written on three continents, in three different languages, over a period of approximately 1500 years, by more than 40 authors who came from many walks of life, the Bible remains one unified book from beginning to end without contradiction. This unity is unique from all other books and is evidence of the divine origin of the words which God moved men to record.

    Another of the internal evidences that indicates the Bible is truly God’s Word is the prophecies contained within its pages. The Bible contains hundreds of detailed prophecies relating to the future of individual nations including Israel, certain cities, and mankind. Other prophecies concern the coming of One who would be the Messiah, the Savior of all who would believe in Him. Unlike the prophecies found in other religious books or those by men such as Nostradamus, biblical prophecies are extremely detailed. There are over three hundred prophecies concerning Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. Not only was it foretold where He would be born and His lineage, but also how He would die and that He would rise again. There simply is no logical way to explain the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible other than by divine origin. There is no other religious book with the extent or type of predictive prophecy that the Bible contains.

    Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html#ixzz2oteRxJuD
  19. Gatormb

    Gatormb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,875
    Likes Received:
    258
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Bradenton, Fl
    Ratings Received:
    +812
    There are also external evidences that indicate the Bible is truly the Word of God. One is the historicity of the Bible. Because the Bible details historical events, its truthfulness and accuracy are subject to verification like any other historical document. Through both archaeological evidences and other writings, the historical accounts of the Bible have been proven time and time again to be accurate and true. In fact, all the archaeological and manuscript evidence supporting the Bible makes it the best-documented book from the ancient world. The fact that the Bible accurately and truthfully records historically verifiable events is a great indication of its truthfulness when dealing with religious subjects and doctrines and helps substantiate its claim to be the very Word of God.

    Another external evidence that the Bible is truly God’s Word is the integrity of its human authors. As mentioned earlier, God used men from many walks of life to record His words. In studying the lives of these men, we find them to be honest and sincere. The fact that they were willing to die often excruciating deaths for what they believed testifies that these ordinary yet honest men truly believed God had spoken to them. The men who wrote the New Testament and many hundreds of other believers (1 Corinthians 15:6) knew the truth of their message because they had seen and spent time with Jesus Christ after He had risen from the dead. Seeing the risen Christ had a tremendous impact on them. They went from hiding in fear to being willing to die for the message God had revealed to them. Their lives and deaths testify to the fact that the Bible truly is God’s Word.

    A final external evidence that the Bible is truly God’s Word is the indestructibility of the Bible. Because of its importance and its claim to be the very Word of God, the Bible has suffered more vicious attacks and attempts to destroy it than any other book in history. From early Roman Emperors like Diocletian, through communist dictators and on to modern-day atheists and agnostics, the Bible has withstood and outlasted all of its attackers and is still today the most widely published book in the world.

    Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html#ixzz2otfTEs5O
    • Like Like x 1
  20. asuragator

    asuragator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    20,536
    Likes Received:
    4,089
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ratings Received:
    +6,080
    Read it. Thanks. Raises many questions in my mind. I have trouble accepting that the Bible is the word of God simply because some people say those who wrote it were "good people." As a researcher that just can't cut it for me. Same goes for the historical accounts--while I certainly believe the Bible captures some ancient history, I tend to think the way the author words the claim makes it seem more tautological.

    In my Catholic upbringing, I was always taught that you just have have faith. As an empiricist, I would certainly want to have empirical support, but faith in the Bible, religion, God makes that unnecessary, no? In other words, if you have faith, then you do not need to have the kind of empirical support for your beliefs in God than say we would in the scientific realm. I know this is a fundamental difference between two ways of knowing, but as an insider of one and an outsider of the other, I tend to think the other need not apply the standards of empiricism since that is not what is required.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page