Christian singer comes out

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by cocodrilo, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. philnotfil
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    philnotfil Well-Known Member

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    If he does or if he doesn't, the outcome is already known to God. It isn't known to him.

    You don't have to will yourself to believe for the sake of believing. You can choose not to believe. You are free to make that choice for yourself. God knowing what you will do in no way limits your ability to freely make your own choices. You are trying to apply the rules that men live by to God, it doesn't work very well. His time and our time are different.
  2. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    If you are asking if I agree that God pre-chooses before birth who goes to heaven, and who will be eternally separated from Him. I do not. I agree God chose the preaching of man, but I believe we are truly free to accept or deny that preaching. For instance, Romans 9 is often used to support a Calvinist view, But I believe Romans 9 deals with Gods selection of nations, not souls. Paul was condemning the Jewish people for thinking God owed them salvation because they were 'elected".
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  3. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    It certainly is a complicated issue. homosexuality is certainly not a new issue.
  4. anstro76
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    anstro76 Well-Known Member

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    And one many of us will never agree on...
  5. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    Define "many."
  6. anstro76
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    anstro76 Well-Known Member

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    If you're confused feel free to look it up.
  7. tim85
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    tim85 Well-Known Member

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    So you don't want to reply, got it.
  8. tilly
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    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

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    No doubt, this is true.
  9. lacuna
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    lacuna Well-Known Member

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    Exodus 33:7 - 23
    Moses Meets with the Lord
    7 Moses took his tent and pitched it outside the camp, far from the camp, and called it the tabernacle of meeting. And it came to pass that everyone who sought the Lord went out to the tabernacle of meeting which was outside the camp. 8 So it was, whenever Moses went out to the tabernacle, that all the people rose, and each man stood at his tent door and watched Moses until he had gone into the tabernacle. 9 And it came to pass, when Moses entered the tabernacle, that the pillar of cloud descended and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the Lord talked with Moses. 10 All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and worshiped, each man in his tent door. 11 So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face,* as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle.

    The Promise of God’s Presence
    12 Then Moses said to the Lord, “See, You say to me, ‘Bring up this people.’ But You have not let me know whom You will send with me. Yet You have said, ‘I know you by name, and you have also found grace in My sight.’ 13 Now therefore, I pray, if I have found grace in Your sight, show me now Your way, that I may know You and that I may find grace in Your sight. And consider that this nation is Your people.”

    14 And He said, “My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.”

    15 Then he said to Him, “If Your Presence does not go with us, do not bring us up from here. 16 For how then will it be known that Your people and I have found grace in Your sight, except You go with us? So we shall be separate, Your people and I, from all the people who are upon the face of the earth.”

    17 So the Lord said to Moses, “I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”

    18 And he said, “Please, show me Your glory.”

    19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face,* for no one may see me and live.

    21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”



    Moses was not told to hide; God placed and covered Moses in a cleft of the rock upon which he was told "you may stand" until God had passed by. Why do you think Exodus 33:11 says God spoke with Moses "face to face" but in verse 20 says "you cannot see my face"?
  10. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    Good question L. Seems to be a contradiction so I looked it up. Rather than paraphrase (have to go to work early, missed yesterday) here's the answer.
    https://answersingenesis.org/who-is-god/face-to-face/
  11. WESGATORS
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    WESGATORS Moderator

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    God's knowledge of the future (or the simple concept of determinism) is not relevant from the perspective of how we should live our lives because the concept of knowledge of all future events is unfathomable to us. Whether or not you believe God knows where you are going to be or what you are going to do should not be allowed to be an excuse that you use to keep you from exercising (what you believe to be) your own free will. The illusion of free will is inescapable which makes it real for us, but it is reasonable to consider that just as our past cannot be changed, our future cannot either. At the same time, I don't imagine God's plan was to create a bunch of robots whose actions He already knew to exist. Determinism is an interesting concept philosophically, but I'm not sure it has any practical bearing on how we should live our lives.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
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  12. WESGATORS
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    WESGATORS Moderator

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    I think part of the struggle is with the notion of what needs to be (or is desired to be) "helped." Some believe that heterosexuality is of a greater moral than homosexuality, and others do not. If one does not buy into the idea that there is a moral difference, than one might not understand what it means to be "helped." I think a better way to consider the concept is whether or not a behavior can be changed. If a person can alter their physical qualities and be properly considered to be "changed," then it stands to reason that one could alter their mental qualities and be properly considered to be "changed."

    There (at least) two stumbling blocks here; first is the morality in the debate of trying to help one change vs. trying to help encourage one to be who they are as they are. I find some irony in the idea that our society is tolerant of encouraging change on a physical level, but our society is intolerant of encouraging change on a mental level (unless the change is geared towards the irregular behavior). The other stumbling block is the knowledge and pursuit of knowledge that may be used to properly assist someone in changing their behavior by attempting to alter that which drives the behavior. It may be that we lack the proper technique/technology to truly be able to change someone's behavior in this regard (or to at least do so consistently). It may also be that we do not fully understand what goes into shaping someone's behavior.

    Go GATORS!
    ,WESGATORS
  13. Gatormb
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    Gatormb Well-Known Member

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    May I suggest a great book by R C Sproul..."Chosen by God". May or may not affect your view (non essential doctrine) but you'll be blessed for reading it.

    Food for thought. Who were God's chosen people in the OT?
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  14. nolagator
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    nolagator Active Member

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    Ask yourself this:

    Even if Jesus was just a man and the Bible is a just a book of stories, if everyone you knew followed the teachings of Christ, how much nicer your life would be.

    Matt 22: 37-40
    37Jesus replied, “‘You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’e38This is the first and greatest commandment.39A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.f40The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

    And this is bad because….?
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  15. TheRaid
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    TheRaid VIP Member

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    Oh, unless I am hiding, coming out doesn't change much. I see. I hide my sin, and then make it public, and become a hero and a millionaire. I get it now. I should pretend to be a homosexual, and then come out as a heterosexual. Smart world we live in.
  16. texigator
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    texigator Well-Known Member

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    I applaud you for your bravery and having the COURAGE to come out of the closet about your heterosexuality! You are a true American Hero. The SHN (Straight, Hetero, Normal) Community is SO PROUD of you!
  17. nolagator
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    nolagator Active Member

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    It's inconsequential what my or anyones sexuality is. That's the point, it does not matter so shut up about it.
  18. texigator
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    texigator Well-Known Member

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    You missed my sarcasm.

    I was reinforcing your point that the media focuses a ridiculous amount of attention on these sexuality announcements.
  19. TheRaid
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    TheRaid VIP Member

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    Obviously, you don't get satire.
  20. TheRaid
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    TheRaid VIP Member

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    What if my sexual attraction was to all genders, human or not? What if everything in my being wants to murder my neighbor because he is Hitler himself in hiding? The desire to sin does not call for or legitimize a re-categorizing it as "not a sin."
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