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Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8orbill, May 14, 2014.
UAW would never allow. How is a worker supposed to smoke reefer when there are tours? That said, US autos are much improved over 20 years ago. 35 years ago, father in law had a rattle on a new Pontiac station wagon door. Returned to dealership multiple times. Luther Coggin finally got them to take the door panel off...inside they found a pop bottle with a note saying "you finally found me", no doubt placed by a UAW worker pissed with only having 5 weeks of vacation.
Factory of the future with only two employees, one human and a dog.
The human is there to feed the dog. The dog is there to be sure the human doesn't touch anything.
The unions are actively trying to insure robots will somehow be unionized.
If you want an indictment of the damage that unions do to the manufacturing industry, look no further than India and China. India has relatively strong manufacturing unions, believe it or not. In China, you would be laughed out of the country (even by the workers) if you suggested that they form a union. They would like higher wages and fewer hours, of course. But they understand that working hard and being productive is the basis of their nation's success--they have enough wisdom to not kill the golden goose. They also have a sense of communal responsibility and support for the greater good of the country. The Chinese also understand that if their company does not treat them well, they can apply to work at another company. Both countries have low wages, but in India, the worker doesn't have to work. They sit around as much as possible. If the manager yells at them for not working, they file a grievance. The more ambitious Indians work in places like Saudi Arabia and South Africa. The union-protected laziness in India prevents the companies from being productive, and as a result, China manufactures far more products than India for the global market. That is why India is known for call centers, and China is known for manufacturing. India also cannot take back their factories from the unions, because the politicians have to grovel at the feet of the unions to get elected (sound familiar, democrats?).
Of course, I'm not suggesting that America make over its factory workers to the Chinese model--grossly underpaid and overworked, with much higher levels of physical and chemical hazards. We have OSHA, minimum wage, and other policies and agencies (not to mention the threat of lawsuits) to protect the American worker. The American worker also has the right to apply for another job if he feels he is not being treated fairly. We don't need unions. And if we go the route of India, with more and more of U.S. workers unionized, expect the manufacturing jobs to disappear for good. And expect the middle class to largely disappear as well.
Isn't that a plank in the Democratic platform?
it is the Democrat party not the Democratic party
That is now the American model--where one person does their own work and that of the 5 people let go previously.
in the end shab all businesses are in business to make money-reducing labor out does improve the bottom line
Any company hiring people in other countries instead of Americans doesn't deserve to be in business here.
Every company has to strike a balance between working people too hard and not getting any productivity out of them. If they push employees too hard, the employees go work elsewhere. If they don't push them at all, the company fails. Private companies are not like government agencies--workers can't sit around all day and drink coffee and surf the internet while the phone rings.
the plant is in Germany and you think they should hire Americans? not sure I can even begin to understand your logic on that one hoss
But the unions want control of the corporation, the workers and the robots. As if these dimwit bastards created/invented the businesses they've invaded/taken-over to begin with.
Or they stay where they are overworked and overstressed because there are too few other options available.
a) In America, there are always options available. You don't have to work in the same field, for example. You can start your own business, or be a consultant. You can change locations if there are opportunities in another state. You may have to take a pay cut to get rid of the stress, or take some risks that you may be unconfortable with, but there are options.
The reason that people get hemmed in by these low expectations is that their current job has hammered away at their confidence to the point that they stop looking. It's not because there are no options. We don't live in a highly structured caste society.
b) All it takes is one option to pan out, and then you have a new job.
Your dissertation on the horrible nature of Unions is very Fox like. A series of examples that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the article other than those countries build stuff. The factory shown in the video is entirely Union, via Works Councils. These folks are very well paid, unionized, did get paid to sit on the side lines during the worst of the mini-depression we went through and have double the vacation time Americans do. Pretty much contra to every anti-labor comment on the thread. In light of all these costly benefits their workers get, VW management is very content with their relationship with labor. Germany's economy fared better than the US and all of Europe while paying their employees reduced salaries to sit out during the downturn. Germany's corporations actually do work with and consider their labor force a principal in the future of their company. I think our form of Unions are detrimental as they take an adversarial role with management whereas work councils in Germany work in concert with companies to drive win-win conditions.
Unions in Europe were formed by the management . . . hundreds of years ago. They were trade guilds to help make sure that tradesmen knew how to do their jobs correctly. It had nothing to do with wages. Even today, it is nothing to go into a heavy industry fabrication shop in Germany and find a mini-shop in the corner, where grimy 16-year-olds are working away, filing down metal bars and drilling holes in metal plates (they have a very strong apprentice program in Germany).
America's unions were formed in opposition to management, out of necessity at the time. It was the only way they could ensure some minimum level of safety at work. At some point, unions decided that their collective bargaining power could be used to rob the companies they worked for (to get more of a "living wage" than they were getting before). Even Ford, which pioneered the concept of paying their employees enough money that they could afford to buy a Ford vehicle, was not immune from their greed.
German unions have very little in common with American unions, other than the name and the fact that both are involved with manufacturing.