Can a school ban the American flag on 5/5? The Ninth Circuit hears arguments today..

Discussion in 'Too Hot for Swamp Gas' started by g8rjd, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. TJtheGator
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    TJtheGator Well-Known Member

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    So basically being patriotic = being insensitive to other people's feelings. How come we don't take into account the feelings of American students when the Mexicans are being patriotic?
  2. wgbgator
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    wgbgator Sub-optimal Poster Premium Member

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    Well I hope "hurt feelings" arent what decides this case. Besides I though we liberals were the super-emotional ones. :) Very few people seem to be arguing that the school made a good call, just that it was within their rights to make it.
  3. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Two students want to display their national pride. If it's "disruptive" for one, then it has to be disruptive for the other...these are identical actions. Ban displays of both flags or allow both.

    The school can't pick favorites. That would be illegal.

    If the court allows this to stand, then, quite simply, it would be an abhorrent and disgusting decision.
  4. TJtheGator
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    TJtheGator Well-Known Member

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    Spot on! The American students feel the need to display their patriotism but they are categorized as disruptive, trouble makers, and racists. The Mexican students feel the need to display theirs, and we make every effort to protect those rights and make sure no one tramples them. And no, the law should not be different whether it's Cinco de Mayo, 4th of July, or 3 am on the third Tuesday of November.
  5. gatorpa
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    gatorpa Well-Known Member

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    Sad that if kids wear the American flag it might cause a "disruption", have to kiss the A#S of wanna be thugs.
  6. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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    True.

    Did this happen?
  7. GT Gator
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    GT Gator Well-Known Member

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  8. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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  9. exiledgator
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    exiledgator Gruntled Premium Member

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  10. DieAGator
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    Are they banning all national flags that day or just American?
  11. TJtheGator
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    TJtheGator Well-Known Member

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    If there was one flag that absolutely positively MUST NEVER be banned on United States soil it's the US flag.
  12. MichiGator2002
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    I am not willing to concede that much. The US flag is not merely equal in stature to others.
  13. TJtheGator
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    TJtheGator Well-Known Member

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    Agree. But wait until the lawyers argue that in court.

    I predict the day will come where flying the American flag ANYWHERE will be banned because it will offend some. I also predict that churches will no longer be allowed to have crosses on their spires, as it will offend someone driving by. All you need is a good attorney, a liberal judge, and the right jury, and anyone's constitutional rights can be trampled on the grounds that it tramples someone else's.
  14. chompalot
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    chompalot Well-Known Member

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  15. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    I spent some time listening to the argument today, and I have to say the students lawyer was not all that great. It looks like it is a pretty fact specific case and the record indicates that there was a threat of a disturbance, which likely means the court will defer to the school district. However, the students had two intriguing arguments that were actually interrelated.

    The best argument the students put forward is that the legitimate reason that the school put forward, that they believed there was a disturbance from the flag clothes, was a pretext for content based censorship. Specifically, the students pointed to two things that raise the prospect of a pretext: First, the school banned the american flag clothes, but not the Mexican flag. Second, the officials said to students, "Let them have their day."

    That leads to the second argument that I thought stood a chance: that the school created a limited public forum by allowing Cinco De Mayo celebrations and, therefore, has to allow those who oppose the celebrations the opportunity to express their viewpoint.

    The reason these argument may work is that the trial court decided the case in a posture called "summary judgment," which means that, even if you view the facts in the light most favorable to the non-moving party, as a matter of law the moving party is entitled to a verdict based on the evidence adduced in discovery. Essentially, there is no need for a trial, because there's nothing a jury can find that would give the non-moving party a verdict. Because of that standard, these arguments may be enough to send the case back for trial. However, listening the argument, I think that is a thin reed. It looks like the 9th is going to affirm, meaning the school will win.

    Just my $.02 from the argument. Feel free to listen yourself.
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  16. gatorev12
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    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be curious where the threat of the disturbance came from and who was making the threats.

    If the school had advance knowledge that there'd be trouble from one group or the other wearing one flag or the other, then ban all displays. Of course, then the Mexicans would throw a fit and sue the school system, but there you have it. But on the day of, if there were no credible threats (not just imaginary ones from hyper-sensitive school administrators) and you're singling one group out and not the other, then sorry, that's discriminatory.

    I sincerely hope the students get a better attorney and/or the ACLU decides to actually start paying attention to AMERICAN civil liberties if the ever-crazy 9th Circuit does the wrong thing.

    No American student studying at a public school should ever be sent home or told not to wear a shirt that displays the American flag. Literally, ever.
  17. RealGatorFan
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    I take issue with the idea that schools shouldn't display the US flag. Public schools are under direct authority of the Dept of Education and therefore are considered federal assets. Additionally, public schools are funded by US taxpayers and taxpayers have overwhelmingly said they support the display of the US flag. Most states mandate that the US flag be displayed at every public school. Except for California El Mexico. The fruit cakes that make up the infamously moronic 9th District Court was responsible for that. Maybe we Americans should all line up at the border of California and Nevada and jump up and down until it falls off:)
  18. gatornana
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    Why are Cinco De Mayo celebrations allowed to spill over into school? School is for education.....celebrate at home.
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  19. OklahomaGator
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    Thanks for taking your time to listen and explain. It sounds like the students didn't put their best case forward which means if they lose and appeal to the Supremes they are stuck with these arguments.

    Thanks again for the explanations.
  20. g8rjd
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    g8rjd Well-Known Member

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    Your comment reminded me of a funny moment in the rebuttal argument. The student's lawyer (who, I failed to mention, is from a public interest group), had been referring to "Cinco de Mayo" pronounced MAY-OH. One of the judges interrupted him and said, "Here in California, we call it Mayo," pronouncing it MY-OH. Have to admit, that one made me laugh.

    Lesson for lawyers? Know how to pronounce what you are talking about. :)

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