Brent Pease: I DON’T KNOW WHAT VANILLA IS

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by mulegator, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    If the offense didnt produce how did the team win?

    Winning a game by running the football and wearing a team down is not luck. It is a strategy. What games did UF win last year were luck and why?
  2. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    It has nothing to do with what scheme I prefer. Our offense did not produce in 2012.

    Given your parameters of what you think makes a good offense, then what was your opinion of Arkansas, Miss St and Bowling Green offense in 2012? Given we either played them or they were in the SEC.

    Where would you rank their 2012 offense? Top 25? 50? 75? 100? Out of 120.

    Where would you rank our offense?

    It's one thing to blindly say we were good, it's another to have to make real relative calls.
  3. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    Great on one side and bad on another usually results in 4 or so losses. We got real lucky and overachieved. Outliers happen. We had numerous close games that were essentially coin flips.

    For example we may have a win probability if 55% this week at Miami. When we do win, it doesn't suddenly mean we will beat Miami 100% of the time. If we played them again you wouldn't think we'd win 100% of the time, but rather again around 55%. See FSU/UF '96 and Bama/LSU '11 rematches.
  4. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    What game was UF lucky in? You are talking betting I am talking the product on the field. You know where coaches have a strategy and follow it. They also can make adjustments. Just admit none of the game were luck.
  5. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    What do they have to do with the 2012 gators? Offense helped the team go 11-1 in the regular season that is production
  6. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    We are seeing how you judge offenses and whether you do it consistently and fairly.

    It seems you are the one putting emotion in your analysis. Besides if you can't judge other offenses then you have no idea if we were good or bad. It's all relative. If you can't judge the benchmark (the other teams) then how can you possibly know if we were better or worse than them?
  7. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    No emotions into my analysis. I am going to ask you a few simple questions. What kind of offense should the team have ran last year and do you think the team would have been as successful overall?
  8. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    It's not betting. It's probability. We had by my count 8 games that were close and essentially coin flips. You'd expect a team to lose 4 of those. Don't forget when a game is close and a coin flip its a coin flip for the other team too.

    Teams don't have a special skill to win coin flips. It's random in the short term and you win 50% in the long term. See 2011 Gators. Headed by the same Muschamp. We were 3-4 in those games.
  9. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    That doesnt work when you are talking about real football games in the moment. You would say LSU game was a coin flip. I would say our offense wore them down and ran it down their throat. Which is true there was no luck in that. Now football does come down to a handful of plays during a season but that is skill in winning or losing those plays and battles
  10. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    Then how did we compare to BGU, Arkansas and Miss St?

    Personally I don't care what scheme we run as long as we execute the scheme. And your last question makes no sense. If we played last season over with the same offense we most likely lose 4 games. So even if the offense was better, we'd still have to overachieve to match how lucky we were last year, unless the offense was much better.

    And your question implies production is all scheme related. Players matter too.
  11. Matthanuf06
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    Matthanuf06 New Member

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    And this shows you don't understand statistics and win probability. We were nowhere near 100% win probability except for the last minute.

    For example when Beckham was running down the sideline prior to being stripped it was probably damn close to a 50:50 game. Probably tilted a bit in our favor but essentially a coin flip.

    Just like our game vs UGA was close. We certainly were not guaranteed to lose... Which is what your analysis says
  12. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    What you are proving is you don't understand football. I understand statics and probability but the way you are trying to apply it doesnt work there are too many moving parts.

    Yes if are offense can score 60 points a game and are defense can hold people to 3 point we will win a game but it doesn't work like that. Who is doing that in the SEC?

    If the offense is more efficient it will be easier to win games. That does not mean the offense last year was bad. The offense played a role in winning game by limiting turnovers and controlling the time of possession.

    Now if we went to an uptempo offense throwing vertically and scored more points we would also have less time of possession and more turnovers. Which would impact how the defense played. Do you believe that is the best way for this team to win games? I doubt you do.

    Are all games a coin flip at the beginning of the game?
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  13. GATORAZ
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    GATORAZ Well-Known Member

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    There is not a Gator out there that doesn't think/want the offense needs to be more efficient and they should start with the penalties. But blowing out Toledo by scoring extra points is not going to help beat LSU in a month. Oregon beating Tennessee State by 40 last year didnt help them beat Stanford
  14. gatorich
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    gatorich Well-Known Member

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    Did you re-watch Bama's games against LSU and UGA? Both of those games could have EASILY been losses. The difference between good teams and very good teams is the very good teams win those close games....it's more determination than luck.
  15. LincolnGator
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    LincolnGator New Member

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    re: the bolded part: Except for Brent Pease, evidently.

    Which brings us full circle back to the subject of the thread. I think some of us were looking for a little more candid acknowledgement by him of the same fact you mentioned, that's all.
  16. bullish
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    bullish Well-Known Member

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    After our first loss, and we waited till we were two td's behind to try and pass, since we at that point haven't gone deep all year and it doesn't work, vanilla won't be what fans will be saying. Miami wins style points by us keeping them in the game and a possible upset. Close or upset they win by saying they're back.
  17. regator
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    regator Member

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    No all fans grumble.
    The reason we don't keep assistants is we dont pay them as much as say Alabama
    Or they take head coaching jobs
  18. regator
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    The old if you can do better response.

    Foley hired zook so he can make mistakes.

    Not saying Muschamp is a mistake but to think you have to be a head coach or AD yo see problems is silly.

    It's football not rocket science
  19. ametcalf
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    ametcalf Active Member

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    Hey.....does the offense look better this year as compared to last? Was Pease lying when he stated the positive things he saw from the offensive unit? Do you believe that this unit will get better? Do you believe that additional practice and time will help them? Was there something that you didn't see on Saturday that you absolutely know that you'll never ever see? Would you like a bowl of vanilla ice cream?

    Edit: Pease was very clear in what he stated in his most recent interview. He saw good things....and he's looking at different things than the avg fan.
  20. wpgator
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    The bottom line is that our offense is average at best and our defense is exceptional. If our offense improved to even good over the course of the season with the level of our defense we'd be talking SEC championships and national titles instead of being picked third in the east by the coaches.

    We were picked third because our offense was suspect last year and still is. You can call it whatever you like, inefficient, predictable, whatever. The bottom line is that if our defense has an off game for any reason we are extremely susceptible to losing to anyone because we struggle to score points. We have no room for error. Exhibit A is Louisiana Lafayette last year when we needed a punt block at home in the waning seconds to win.

    Clearly the jury is still out because it is a new year with new players but I didn't see anything explosive in Saturday's game. That may change as the young receivers mature and Matt Jones returns, we'll see. After Toledo, however, it looked similar to last year with no stretch the field plays against a team with an average defense at best and us with clearly better athletes.

    Every Gator on this board would take a win at 9-6 instead of a loss scoring 60 points, so please stop insinuating that anyone who questions the explosiveness (or lack thereof) of our offense cares more about style than winning. That is inane. I think those of us that objectively look at the offense see that we did have some close calls last year that very easily could have gone the other way (i.e. punt block in Louisiana Lafayette, strip of Beckham in LSU game, six turnovers on offense that could have won us the UGA game) that were all supported by stellar defense. It was the offense's fault in those games and I think all that most Gator fans are asking for is better offensive consistency and efficiency to make our margin for error on defense a little larger.

    One question. If we were down by 5 with 2:00 left on the clock at our own 20 yard line, do you have faith in our offense that we can truly go down and score? Right now I don't because we have no explosiveness at all. We can put together grind it out drives that are sometimes successful but at some point you are going to be required to put points up quickly because the defense will be struggling a bit and I haven't seen that in most games the last two years. This is not the worst offense ever and I believe it will get better, but right now it looks marginally better than last year after the Toledo game. Our game plan is win it with defense and don't let the offense lose it for us; I think we can be more aggressive than that on offense and become a more legitimate title contender because we will have better balance.
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