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Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by anstro76, Nov 13, 2013.
I'll see you there! I'll be the guy in the stands wearing the Braves T-shirt!
And I'll be their wearing my Gator T-shirt:yes::laugh:
Another stadium deal that redistributes money from taxpayers to billionaire owners and multi-millionaire players. As long as cities and counties are willing to spend other people's money the subsidies will continue.
Financing a $450 million stadium is well within the means of major league and NFL teams. But it pays to be on the dole, whether rich or poor, when it is OPM.
This is just a silly and uninformed position!
Nobody is paying the Braves owners or players a dime. This is no subsidy and nobody is directly profiting off this deal.
It's simply a deal where the city of Atlanta wasn't willing to do what it took to keep Turner Field a quality stadium and Cobb County stepping in with a plan that seems to benefit everyone.
The Braves didn't threaten to move if Atlanta didn't build a new stadium. Their 20 year lease with Turner Field is up and they told the city of Atlanta (who owns the stadium) what they expected done in order to sign a new 20 year deal. It's no different than if you signed a 20 year rental agreement on a house or apartment and you could see that walls needed painting and the roof was close to needing to be replaced and the AC was on it's last leg and your landlord came to you saying they expected you to sign another 20 year lease but wouldn't commit to fixing anything.
^ Who is paying for the new stadium? Are the Braves? Or Cobb County?
All over the country teams get politicians to pay for stadiums, like in Miami with the Marlins boondoggle. Instead of the teams paying debt service for stadiums they get the taxpayers to do it, and pocket the difference. The owners get get free rent and increased profits, and the players share in the larger operating income because the stadiums are free, or heavily subsizidized. Whether it is a salary cap like the NFL, or a soft cap as in baseball, the increased profits are shared by owners and players.
Perhaps I should have said indirect subsidy, it is a subsidy nonetheless. Government(s) shouldn't be paying for it.
Both. The Braves are paying $250 million toward the construction.
Look, I know what's happened in other cities but Atlanta has a little different. To my knowledge, there has never been an Atlanta team that threatened to leave if the city didn't build them a new stadium.
I know it doesn't make logical sense to people from outside of Atlanta that the Georgia Dome and Turner Field are being replaced, but these are kind of unique deals.
For the Falcon's stadium, you have Arthur Blank basically paying about 75% of the cost out of pocket. The city of Atlanta is getting a sweetheart deal of having a new state of the art stadium that will likely bring at least 2 Super Bowls, a spot in the NCAA football playoffs and championship games, a couple of NCAA Final Fours, and an MLS team. And it's only going to cost the city $250 million. That's a GREAT deal and basically a gift from Arthur Blank, just as the Georgia Aquarium was essentially a gift from Bernie Marcus.
As for the Braves, they asked Atlanta to do some repairs and upgrades to Turner Field to secure a 20 year lease. I don't know that I can blame the Braves for not wanting in 10-20 years to be in a 30-40 year old stadium that hasn't been upgraded. So when talks broke down, Cobb County came to the Braves with the offer to jointly build the stadium and I think the real key to this deal is the development of the area around the stadium.
I believe this is much more than just a stadium deal. Cobb County already has the basic infrastructure of an entertainment epicenter in place right next to where the stadium is being built. I think the Braves and Cobb County probably both see the opportunity to build something bigger than just a stadium and if they do it right, both parties can make a lot of money. This is something that would be impossible to create at Turner Field.
Between the Braves and Cobb County, there's a potential to create an epicenter that Atlanta has never had before. This can be so much more than just a stadium deal.
For those who wondered why the Braves would leave a perfectly good stadium to move to Cobb Country, here's your answer and as I suggested, it has relatively little to do with the stadium. It is all about the development opportunities around the stadium.
It's almost scary how what they're doing is almost exactly what I outlined:
The Braves will build a massive $400 million entertainment district next to the stadium. The first phase will be up to 1 million square feet of retail, restaurants and office space. The second phase will be apartments, condos and office space. They've also got what looks like a pretty large amphitheater right next to the stadium. And it will all be linked by a pedestrian bridge across I-285 to the Cobb Galleria Center.
The don't talk about what will be done as far with the Galleria or Cumberland Mall, but there's already a lot there and I expect the Convention Center will want to expand to bring in larger groups and I bet they completely renovate the Galleria complex.
Personally, I think that pedestrian bridge is going to be the key to making this project work. It can't just be a basic pedestrian bridge. It needs to be green space that actually connects the stadium side with the Galleria side somewhat seamlessly, like an elevated green space park.
The key to this development is having the inherent constant sources of business, which I think they have. You've got the convention center, lots of upscale offices, upscale hotels and business, already there as well as a ton of residents nearly and it's a decent enough area that people won't be afraid to go there. Add the Braves and they can make this an entertainment epicenter like Atlanta has never had. They'll have a constant flow of traffic every day of the year, which is the key.
If they do this right, I honestly think they can create something that works really well and makes both the Braves and Cobb County a lot of money.