Braves leaving downtown

Discussion in 'Swamp Gas' started by anstro76, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. g8r925
    Offline

    g8r925 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,420
    Likes Received:
    296
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Immokalee,fla
    Ratings Received:
    +404
    I hope that this goes through as planned and I will be back to watch my braves. The Ted is starting to get run down, and I read that the new stadium will be smaller to the tune of between 41 or 42 thousand, which will make the games feel a little more intimate for the fans, and could cause the tickets to be more in demand, with the possibility of more sell outs. Plus its already been mentioned that the area around the Ted right now is just not safe, along with the nightmare that traffic is, it just doesn't make it worth it to come to a game.
  2. atlantagator86
    Offline

    atlantagator86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,473
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Alpharetta, GA
    Ratings Received:
    +498
    Again, you need to understand the total picture. Turner Field hosts the 80 Braves games and that's about it.

    But the new football stadium will host the 8 Falcons games, plus a college football playoff game, plus probably 6 GSU football games, plus I would guess a new lower tier bowl game.

    But in addition to that, Atlanta will probably host a couple of Super Bowls, add a new MLS team (this is a major component of this stadium deal), probably a couple Final 4s, concerts, motocross, supercross and other several other events. People don't realize how many events are actually held in these domes stadiums.

    The football stadium will likely host close to if not more events, and bigger events, than Turner Field. Plus Arthur Blank is paying for most of the stadium. This football stadium is a truly sweetheart deal for the city of Atlanta!
  3. Hebron13
    Offline

    Hebron13 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +27
    i saw a map that listed where most of the fans came from that attended games...they are building the new stadium right smack in the middle of all their fans...smart move on braves part...away from last 30-40 years where we build staidums right smack in crack town of most major cities...sure the land is cheap but if you add up all the lost revenue its likely a wash...NOT a braves fan at all but it will be interesting if this creates a more passionate fan base...not regarded as one of the best fan bases, thats for sure...in any sport....
  4. jsc28
    Offline

    jsc28 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings Received:
    +19
    Well it is hard to break down without seeing any actual numbers (other than Cobb is rumored to be paying 450 million).

    I don't think the Braves own any of the land or stadium now. So they are leasing it from the City and that ends in 2016.

    So they are going to be handed the keys to a brand new stadium that Cobb is footing most of the bill, and I assume they get ownership of the land and development deals.

    So for the Braves ownership it makes a ton of sense, they are cashing in.

    For Cobb it will most likely be an awful financial move, like most stadiums funded by the public are, but they will have a MLB team playing there...
  5. atlantagator86
    Offline

    atlantagator86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,473
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Alpharetta, GA
    Ratings Received:
    +498
    Simple. The Braves don't own Turner Field, the city of Atlanta does. The Braves had a 20 year lease that is about to run out and they were up for renewal. It's not really costing them anything to leave. It's really no different than a company moving their office after their lease is up.

    So as part of the negotiations on the Braves signing a new 20 year lease at Turner Field, the Braves asked the city for some significant renovations. I don't know exactly what they asked for or how many were truly necessary but I'm sure a large portion was justified with a 20-year old structure.

    And keep in mind that the Braves need to look not just at the condition of the stadium right now, but where it will be in 5, 10, 15 and 20 years. In 10 years, it will be a 30 year old stadium, which is typically the lifespan of a modern stadium. At that point, with nothing done, I suspect Turner Field will probably be in pretty bad shape. So I would have to think that most of the renovations requested are probably justified.

    So when the city of Atlanta apparently said they weren't willing to put any money into the stadium or maybe just agreed to fix things that are already broken, but wanted the Braves to contractually agree to play there for the next 20 years, the 2 sides were at a stalemate and talks broke off. I get that the city can't afford it right now but I can certainly see the Braves side as well.

    And at that point, Cobb County came in and agreed to pay the vast majority of the cost of a brand new stadium for them. A stadium that while I'm sure the Braves didn't want to leave downtown Atlanta, is in a much more desirable area, better centered with their fan base, without most of the logistical problems of Turner Field, and where they can probably make a lot more money on the land development around the stadium.

    Bottom line, and my numbers may be off, but the Braves ownership group felt like it was worth investing $250 million in the Cobb County, where they can probably make a $1 billion in additional revenue over the next 20 years, over paying nothing up front and just renewing the lease with Turner Field.

    Assuming they went back to the city of Atlanta with Cobb County's offer and the city wasn't willing to do anything, I can't really blame the Braves from walking away.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. atlantagator86
    Offline

    atlantagator86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,473
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Alpharetta, GA
    Ratings Received:
    +498
    It's not really centered, but it's a lot closer than Turner Field is. The population center for metro Atlanta is probably close to GA-400 at Abernathy (exit 5) that's above of the northernmost point of the perimeter.
  7. atlantagator86
    Offline

    atlantagator86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,473
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Alpharetta, GA
    Ratings Received:
    +498
    I'm not so sure about that. The stadium deal itself will probably lose money but I think there's much more to this than the stadium deal. If you know the area, this stadium is being built on prime real estate. Well maybe not prime real estate but what 20 years ago was some of the most expensive real estate in the metro area.

    They RARELY build stadiums on prime real estate unless there's more to it. You've already got the Galleria Mall and Cumberland Mall right there, as well as the Cobb Convention Center and a performing arts center, plus a lot of office space and fairly high end hotels (Embassy Suites and Sheraton Suites). Plus you've got the Home Depot corporate offices about a mile away (don't think for a moment that Home Depot isn't somehow very integral in this deal).

    I really think Cobb County will use the Braves to help redevelop that area into a major epicenter of Atlanta. They may expand the convention center to compete with GWCC for bigger shows, add more hotels and office space, renovate the Galleria and Cumberland Mall and somehow develop a way to connect that area with the stadium with some kind of green space pedestrian walkway over I-285. If they can do that, and then develop new entertainment options at the stadium, they could do something in Cobb County that has always failed in downtown Atlanta.

    They could create an entertainment epicenter for metro Atlanta that would have year around sources of business between the Braves, conventions, local business and residents in an area where Atlanta residents wouldn't be afraid to go year around. They would almost surely be able to bring in some major restaurant and entertainment options to an epicenter like this. Maybe even bring some of it into the stadium itself, like Miami has the Clevelander Club and Coors Field has what I believe is the Blue Moon brewery inside the stadium.

    Atlanta has never really been able to pull that off because they haven't had the sources of business all in one place. Had they built Turner Field near the CWCC, they might have, but they didn't. So for example, when they built Underground Atlanta, which was a nice concept, it was kind of a stand alone that started out with some good entertainment. But since it wasn't close to either stadium or the GWCC, it didn't have the consistent sources of business. Underground lived off the convention business but when conventions weren't in town, the gangs moved in and scared most of the metro Atlanta residents from going. And now it's largely boarded up, except what's essentially become a food court and low end retail, including a dollar store.

    And don't be surprised if this doesn't bring MARTA rail to Atlanta, though I suspect Cobb County may fight that.

    If that happens and Cobb County can create something that people want to go to year around, then I think this could become a great deal for both parties.
  8. DieAGator
    Offline

    DieAGator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    17,343
    Likes Received:
    205
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings Received:
    +911
    Thanks for the thoughtful information. It will be interesting to see where this is ten years from now.

    I see what part of Cobb they want it in... was imagining a stadium north on 400.

    That's how it is these days, gangs around Underground? Shame. I searched "gangs underground atlanta". :(

    I used to go downtown to the Underground/Auburn Ave area often enough during the day and never had a problem. Always enjoyed it. There never was much to underground though, no doubt.
    You mean out to Cobb County? Can they actually prevent that?
  9. tilly
    Online

    tilly Superhero Moderator VIP Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    19,611
    Likes Received:
    672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC via FLA
    Ratings Received:
    +2,391
    Hey...Lets just disassemble Turner...ship it to Tampa...reassemble it, and get the Rays moved across the bay.
  10. atlantagator86
    Offline

    atlantagator86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11,473
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Alpharetta, GA
    Ratings Received:
    +498
    Pretty much. It's not all gang and not so much during the day. But at night any time there wasn't a large group, like a convention or Peach Drop, it was pretty sketchy. The plan for Underground was to get locals to come from the suburbs but that never happened. And once there were a few gang related incidents and killings, the locals stopped coming and the good restaurants and entertainment quickly left.

    When they opened, they opened a police precinct in Underground Atlanta to try to keep this from happening but it didn't work out.

    The food court has mostly survived for the lunch crowd.

    Yes. For years. Since I moved here in 1987, MARTA has tried to open service into Cobb County and it has been blocked because Cobb wouldn't make money and they didn't want it. To the point that Cobb started their own bus service that drives into Atlanta to connect to MARTA. They even talked about building their own rail service.
  11. Hebron13
    Offline

    Hebron13 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +27
    sorry, didnt mean so literally....it also appeared relatively easy to get to from areas that potentially a deeper fan base could grow from...
  12. jsc28
    Offline

    jsc28 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings Received:
    +19
  13. capnpen
    Offline

    capnpen Active Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings Received:
    +229
    I live maybe 15 minutes from the new stadium location. From a local Braves fan's perspective:

    Location - The Ted is in a rundown neighborhood. I don't feel safe parking my car outside of one of the official lots, and I feel even less safe driving through these neighborhoods at night. Conversely, the new stadium is in a much more upscale area that is fed directly by two interstates and a US highway, plus a couple of very good access roads. Ingress-egress from the new stadium should be much improved.

    Dining - If you're going to a Braves game, then you'll eat fast food on the way or eat something at the game. There are no options near the stadium. With the new stadium, they'll be located less than five minutes from 100 different dining options, as well as a ton of different shopping centers, including a decent mall.

    Hotels - The only thing near the stadium is an old Holiday Inn. The new stadium will be near a couple of dozen hotels, including some very high-end places.

    Now, as a Cobb County resident I'm not incredibly jazzed about picking up a $450 million bond on the project. But I am excited about the revenue generated by this stadium that will feed into our county, including our schools. Overall, I'm pretty excited about having the stadium "in my backyard." It will definitely lead to my family going to a lot more games.
  14. g8trdoc
    Offline

    g8trdoc Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +204
    Spin it anyway they want but there are getting out if the ghetto in the next Detroit aka Atlanta proper
  15. red4512
    Offline

    red4512 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings Received:
    +204
    This news really makes me:happy: But I have enough experience with this whole development to know that Coob County residents will DEEPLY regret this decision
    by the opening date. I will be COMPLETELY amazed if the Braves do move from downtown Atlanta.
  16. jsc28
    Offline

    jsc28 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ratings Received:
    +19
    Sounds like the biggest winners are people who live closer to the new site, and not in Cobb County.
  17. PTCGator
    Offline

    PTCGator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,063
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings Received:
    +158
    ^^^ I agree 100% ^^^ The area around Turner Field is an absolute hell hole that most people avoid like the plague! There is nowhere to go eat or drink before/after a game. Most people who drive there are lucky they have a car when the game ends!
  18. anstro76
    Offline

    anstro76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,253
    Likes Received:
    486
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    St.Petersburg
    Ratings Received:
    +878
    Is jocks and jills gone?

    Sent from my mind using ESP
  19. garettk
    Offline

    garettk Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings Received:
    +116
    New stadium is only 12 miles north of the TED and will have Atlanta address. Strict business move, the fans are in the burbs (particularly Cobb area). Marietta, for all intents and purposes is Atlanta.
  20. tideh8rGator
    Offline

    tideh8rGator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,323
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Stuck in the heart of crimson darkness
    Ratings Received:
    +191
    This is an absolute NO-BRAINER. The Braves have finally seen the light and moved ahead of the curve.

    Virtually EVERY stadium development over the last 20 years has been a thinly disguised wealth redistribution scheme to extract $$$ from suburban middle-class people's pockets and sink it into urban sewers.

    The Braves are going the other way, moving TO their middle-class fan base, cutting ATL downtown traffic and establishing a strong entertainment complex where people WANT to go, both geographically and for the sake of safety.

    They will fill the new stadium (especially w/ the team getting good again and ridding itself of the Schuerholz talent selloff curse) and will make a ton of $$$. And I will actually consider driving to ATL again to see baseball.

Share This Page